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Lonely Hearts Club Forum Looking for someone with a common interest? Why not go where they hang out? Have fun, but not TOO much fun in here. ONLY members over 18 are welcome here.

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Old 05-31-2006, 01:48 AM   #31
handsomeRob
well put, Nic.
 
Old 05-31-2006, 02:43 AM   #32
ZX11
may I interject???

Both of you have valid points, this is true.

But, even though porn has been found in the homes of convicted, and unconvicted, sex criminals, it must be pointed out that porn is in millions of millions of homes worldwide. Is this to say everyone that has porn is a sex offender? I don't think so, and if reliable stats were brought in, it would be found there are millions of porn owners/ veiwers that are not, have not, and will not be sex offenders.
Lets also look at the numbers of sex offenders that had no porn in their home. I am certain there would be numbers there, too. I will state those numbers aren't very high, but they do exist. Is this to say you are, or will be an offender if you don't have porn?

I also agree that the girls of porn are someone's daughter/sister/mother. I am demeaning them by watching perform their chosen profession? I don't think so. Remember, only they can put themselves there.
I am not saying I want to buy a video and see my daughter there. I would certainly be heartbroke and sick about it. But, I raised her to not have to go that route. If she chooses to, it's all on her. I don't have to watch it and will not watch it. I would give to her the video, though. It would hurt to know that some guy is spanking his monkey watching her, millions are. But she knew this before she got involved in it.

I also do not agree that one must view more perverted porn to keep the high. I do agree that it has been utilized to enhance private sex lives of couples. It shows a variety, and some folks need that. Some folks need the extra stimuli. Theres nothing wrong with that.

Suppose your wife is feeling frisky while you are watching CSI MIAMI. Your sex life has tapered down abit. She goes in the room, adorns a very sheer and sexy "teddy". Is she a pervert because she kicked it up a notch? No, she is being human, giving visual stimulation. What if she is in the bathroom when you come out of the shower, dripping wet and you use a pelvic thrust to sling "weiner water" on her playfully? Are you the next baby rapist? No, you are being playful.

When a man donates his super swimmers at the frozen swimmers bank, they provide porn to help give the stimulation. I highly doubt they are on the phone with the FBI warning them there is a future child molester in the room next door and they need to watch you.

While there is suggestive evidence that porn is a major part of "chester the molester's" lifestyle, there is equal rebuttal evidence that porn really had nothing to do with it. Nothing is written in stone about this.

This like saying killers watched "how to" videos, then killed. Or, that others in prisons have learned how to do whatever it is they did by wacthing videos or bought books. People do as people do. No particular rhyme or reason. They just "do".

I do not judge people on the rights or wrongs of it. This is purely a matter of personal choice. I have seen it many times. I do not need it, but don't run, either.

As long as the actors, {yes they are just that} and the veiwers all are content, then so be it. Any act that people perform, in public, or private, is ok as long as there is mutual consent. If this is present, then neither can say they were degraded, so it's all good, I guess.

No matter what, though, people must remember the differences of love and lust, F$#king and making love. You can neither love and F#@k, nor lust and make love.
Notice that lust and F#$k both have a "U" in second place. If one "U" is present, both are. "U" {you} are not in first place.

The other way, both have "love"

Due to the vast numbers of religions and interputations, I will venture into this area.

What is good for one isn't for all, vice versa. Sorry for such a long ramble.....
 
Old 05-31-2006, 03:48 AM   #33
A_Kendergirl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griz
Who are you trying to fool here? Yourself? If pornography never led to sexual deviancy then why in the world do you find porn at rapists, sexual deviants, child molestors homes? Sure Nicolai, porn never led to such behaviors....Griz
It's great that you have no need for porn in your life. That being said....

The quote above is a SERIOUS case of putting the cart before the horse. Pedophiles seek pornography of children BECAUSE they are pedophiles....the porn didn't make them become one. That statement is as nonsensical as saying because someone views man on man porn, it made them gay. Trust me, they were gay first.

Please note that I don't feel gay men (or women) are sexually deviant, just that it's a rather ridiculous thought that gay porn would "turn" someone gay.

A side note: My life has not been ruined, and neither has my husband's. The only people that I have seen have problems due to porn is because they LIED about it to their partner. It is the LIE that breaks up relationships. Had they been honest, they may have reached a compromise, or realised they aren't compatible in the first place.
 
Old 05-31-2006, 06:32 AM   #34
nicolai
Wow!!! And I thought i was going to be the solo voice of reason here.
 
Old 05-31-2006, 10:42 AM   #35
Griz
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolai
Wow!!! And I thought i was going to be the solo voice of reason here.
Oh no Nicolai, that designation is mine.

The problem some of you are having is that you are using emotions to justify your stance. For instance:

"Pornography is ok because it makes me feel good."
"Pornography is ok because it can be a marital aid."
"Pornography is ok because it's consenting adults."
"Pornography is ok because who are we to judge."
"Pornography is ok because it is not MY daughter."

Those are the reasoning’s you are giving to justify your stances? It's ok because it makes me feel good. What kind of stance is that?

Do you not see the hypocrisy? Pornography is not something you want your children to be involved in yet you see nothing wrong with it? If you see nothing wrong with it then why in the world don't you want your daughters involved in it? What's good for the goose..............

As for sexual deviancy, the implication of pornography is the desensitizing of the viewer. You are flat our lying to yourself (comment more towards the men) if you tell yourself that watching mild pornography does not lead to more extreme forms. The statistics are irrefutable people. Even the porn industry recognizes this fact hence the reason for the "other" links on their pages. It is this pathway to harder pornography that pushes some people over the edge. They no longer view a woman as something to be admired. They view them as objects, objects of their sick minds. These people do not know the difference between the big screen and reality. Therefore, according to their perverse logic, all women must like to be "gang raped" etc. Did these individuals already have the propensity towards violence? I would say yes but a combination of pornography and societal issues pushes them over the edge. Pornography is part and parcel to their habits. ZX11, show me any conclusive study that says to the contrary. You can't despite your paragraph stating you can.

But, the above paragraph is not really the topic here at hand as I pray none of you fall into that category. So, the real issue here is why is watching porn wrong for the average American? Let me point out a few issues:

1) Pornography feeds lust of the eyes and lust of the flesh, which are never satisfied. This is why some of you are already experiencing husbands/boyfriends who promise to "give it up" but somehow are mysteriously drawn back to it.

2) Pornography sexualizes the viewer's mindset. It is desensitizing you.

3) Pornography promotes destructive practices and can lead to progressive addiction. Why do you think that most porn sites have links to other darker fetishes? Pornography is an addiction. Plain and simple.

4) Pornography intensifies an individual's drive to serve oneself, rather than serve others. Do you really think your husband is not focusing on himself when he watches porn? You have to be kidding yourself if you think the only time he ever watches porn is when you are with him. That's why it's call self-gratification.

5) Pornography addiction can lead to debt. As I said above, it's an addiction and in order to feed that addiction you have to spend money. Again, look at some of the websites and see what the motivation is behind the organizers.

6) Pornography changes your reality. For instance:

# Sexual freedom = happiness
# Perverted sex (incest, BDSM, etc) is more enjoyable than "normal" heterosexual sex
# There are no consequences to sexual promiscuity
# Sexual expression is a right, not a God-given or God-defined gift
# You can live a healthy life with the porn images floating around in your mind
# Porn doesn't harm anyone
# Sex is something to be done primarily for self-gratification
# The porn stars are the happiest people on earth
# Adults can view porn without any lasting side effects
# Porn will help your sex life
# Porn is just a harmless thing that everybody looks at

And from the sound of some of your arguments, some of the above "realities" are coming true...

I would encourage you to ask yourself this question. What's wrong with your own sex life that you require others to fulfill it for you? What's wrong with your own relationship that requires other individuals to perform sex acts in front of you just so that your own motor can get running?

The ONLY reason why some of you feel like justifying your stance is because you do not want to admit that your relationships have problems. Before replying to this comment why don't you sit back and truly think this through before responding. What is the root reason why you feel like your relationship needs pornography? Why do you think it is ok to "spank the monkey" to someone else's daughter but yet you have "higher expectations" for your own? Why do you think it's ok to be a "devote orthodox" but yet fail to follow one of the Ten Commandments in not coveting your neighbor’s wife? Any reason you give is riddled with hypocritical holes. You know it and so do I. The only difference is that I see pornography for what it is while you are defending it for what you wish it could be.......harmless.

Griz
 
Old 05-31-2006, 12:33 PM   #36
TripleMoonsExotic
Wow. I really didn't think my little story would blossom into the discussion that it has. I appreciate everyone's input as this has become a very interesting conversation.

Quote:
not going to go into my personal experiences, but I would warn that if someone cannot stop doing something that both of you have agreed is wrong for the relationship, and tries to make it YOUR fault, that it is important to realize that it is not in fact your fault and that you have done nothing wrong..
Lucille, you're very sweet. I know it's in no way shape or form any fault of mine. I found it amusing when I backed him into a corner and that was his excuse. Chris (like myself) will panic when cornered and spew out ridiculous things when he has nothing else to say. Everything hateful he did say he did come back and apologize for later when I wouldn't give in about the situation and he had some time to think about what he did wrong.

Quote:
Dr. Phil would maybe say its because the man isn't getting something at home, so he seeks it out through other avenues, such as watching and using his imagination.
This was exactly my view on it. I'm not Dr Phil, but I do have my insecurities...Which I will admit partly stems from the fact that I've gained a good 50lbs since Chris and I have been together. As I have said, I enjoyed what little porn had to offer when in a relationship I knew was not going to last. I will admit that it was because I was searching for something I wasn't getting with whom I was with. But that's just me and my humble opinion.

Quote:
After all, when have you ever heard the woman asking the man to go get a towel?
I don't know what you're referring to...But I have asked Chris to grab a towel before!

Anyway...I have no issues with others who enjoy Porn. I on the other hand, will not tolerate it in my relationship...
 
Old 05-31-2006, 12:46 PM   #37
A_Kendergirl
Yes porn can be an addiction, just as alcohol can be. It can ruin lives when the person isn't in control. But just like alcohol is ok every now and then to the person not addicted, so is porn. Wait..lemme guess...you don't drink alcohol either?

As to #4 in your list, I have no illusions as to when he's looking, but plenty of women do. But, just and you're comfortable in your relationship without porn, we are comfortable in ours with it. While I haven't been with him as long as you've been with your wife, I do feel 9 years is quite a statement.

And for #5, you have a SERIOUS problem if you're going into debt over porn. With the amount that is out there for FREE, you'd almost have to try getting into debt. I don't have the number of dollars we've spent over the years, but I can say with confidence that it's under $100. A few friends I have spend that in a year, do I think they have a problem? Nope.

I think you are blowing the dangers of porn way out proportion. I'm willing to guess that the number of people out there that actually have a serious problem are about the same as the number of people that have problems with alcohol....or any other "common" addiction. Like I've said in previous posts the relationship problems are caused by the dishonesty....and that is something the person controls, not the porn.

And in case you weren't aware not EVERYONE is religious and has religious qualms about porn. That's a whole other issue entirely. But then again, look at all the "religious" people that sleep around (much more destructive than porn), steal, kill people, etc....the hypocrisy is not limited to watching porn. But, again, that's neither here nor there.....and I enjoyed the conversation/debate much more before religion entered (it only serves to obscure things, and isn't a standard that applies to everyone).
 
Old 05-31-2006, 12:49 PM   #38
A_Kendergirl
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleMoonsExotic
Anyway...I have no issues with others who enjoy Porn. I on the other hand, will not tolerate it in my relationship...
And that's all you need to know. If it's not something tolerable to you, don't tolerate it. To try to be otherwise will just cause conflicts in the future. Hopefully your fiance will realize what's on the line and will be honest to you and your relationship. I've seen this rocky road before....it's not fun, but it's very important to address it before getting married.

Kudos to you for knowing that not everyone feels the same.
 
Old 05-31-2006, 01:11 PM   #39
handsomeRob
ok i think we're beating a dead horse here. how about we get back to the main topic of the thread?
 
Old 05-31-2006, 01:17 PM   #40
Griz
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Kendergirl
Yes porn can be an addiction, just as alcohol can be. It can ruin lives when the person isn't in control. But just like alcohol is ok every now and then to the person not addicted, so is porn. Wait..lemme guess...you don't drink alcohol either?
You are correct. I do not drink, do drugs or smoke. It's a treacherous road that they lead you down. I see you skipped over my numerous points but I won't do you the same discourtesy. I will address yours point by point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Kendergirl
As to #4 in your list, I have no illusions as to when he's looking, but plenty of women do. But, just and you're comfortable in your relationship without porn, we are comfortable in ours with it. While I haven't been with him as long as you've been with your wife, I do feel 9 years is quite a statement.
Shanti, when you are a bit older and therefore wiser, I do not doubt that you will look back on this time with some serious questions. You and your spouse are traveling down a road that will get you where? Just wait, the simple bedroom scene will soon not be enough, for him anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Kendergirl
And for #5, you have a SERIOUS problem if you're going into debt over porn. With the amount that is out there for FREE, you'd almost have to try getting into debt. I don't have the number of dollars we've spent over the years, but I can say with confidence that it's under $100. A few friends I have spend that in a year, do I think they have a problem? Nope.
Yet millions upon millions do go into debt soley due to porn and their inability to control themselves. So, I ask you why you would even WANT to travel down a road that has led to the demise of so many people? Why would you allow that into your household? You have yet to answer that questions. Nobody has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Kendergirl
I think you are blowing the dangers of porn way out proportion. I'm willing to guess that the number of people out there that actually have a serious problem are about the same as the number of people that have problems with alcohol....or any other "common" addiction. Like I've said in previous posts the relationship problems are caused by the dishonesty....and that is something the person controls, not the porn.
And I think you are underestimated the effects pornography has on people and our society. My opinion is backed up by tens of thousands of studies. Yours is based upon what? Your own relationship. Again, your relationship is probably not statistically significant as you are only 26. It takes time to take it's toll on a marriage. It will take it's toll on yours. Statistics back that up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Kendergirl
And in case you weren't aware not EVERYONE is religious and has religious qualms about porn. That's a whole other issue entirely. But then again, look at all the "religious" people that sleep around (much more destructive than porn), steal, kill people, etc....the hypocrisy is not limited to watching porn. But, again, that's neither here nor there.....and I enjoyed the conversation/debate much more before religion entered (it only serves to obscure things, and isn't a standard that applies to everyone).
Trust me, you cannot spend any amount of time on the internet with that allusion. I never brought religion up, Nicolai did. But I will respond when someone wants to walk down that path. I agree, Christians do more to harm their religion then anything else.

Shanti, as I said in my previous posting, if you are going to participate then educate yourself first on the FACTS. Do not base your opinions upon what you feel which is obviously what you are doing. You BELIEVE that porn is not wrong because it is something you and your husband currently enjoy. You do not BELIEVE it is ok because of statistics, or facts, or case studies. Rather, it is all about how you FEEL, and you FEEL good when watching it. Hmmmm...isn't that one of the dangers I listed above about Pornography? It gives you allusions of grandeur.

Be careful Shanti, as it still befuddles me why you would want to let another woman into your bed and that is EXACTLY what you are doing.

Griz
 

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