EMERALDS IN A RACK.

Bart, thanks for your input...Im trying something different here. also have enought large arboreal cages here just in case this does not work out.

Originally Posted by bsharrah

A pile of sticks are not perches. These animals are arboreal and should be treated as such. No offense Ed, but your husbandry of these animals are less than adequate in my opinion. Will they continue to eat and thrive for you under these conditions? Maybe, if they were hardy from the beginning, but if they have health problems, and many emeralds do when conditions are not "just right", it is going to be very difficult to find the actual cause considering the conditions they are maintained in.

I guarantee the conditions you have them in will effect one's decision to buy them from you in the future.

Good luck,
Bart

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

Im trying some different things with these in an effort to make it easy to maintain large numbers.

Easy for you is more important than better for them. Got it.

Seamus! I wonder if you ever think outside the box???????

Originally Posted by Seamus Haley

Easy for you is more important than better for them. Got it.

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

Seamus! I wonder if you ever think outside the box???????

If "thinking outside the box" means directly contradicting sixty years of carefully refined husbandry, violating (rather than recreating) the environmental conditions the species encounters in nature, flying in the face of [i]all]/i] common sense, logic and established knowledge... then no, I do not think outside the box.

Luckily for the arboreals in my care, I do not think *inside* the squat rubbermaid either. No matter how much space it would conserve or how much more convenient or cheaper it would be. That's an ugly road which leads directly to such brilliant observations as "If I feed them half as much, my profit margins will be bigger." and "It's not dead yet, is it?"

There's really no possible way for you to justify this and have it sound reasonable or acceptable Ed. You're keeping animals in substandard enclosures because, in your own words, it's easier for you.

Ed,

Arboreals can be kept in a rack. This is nothing new. However, they should be in an arboreal rack using tubs with more height than 9” and elevated perches. What you are doing is called poor husbandry. To suggest that it is “thinking outside the box” is just sad.

Based on what I have seen on this forum, you are knowledgeable when it comes to balls and probably many other herps. To see someone of your apparent experience housing arboreal snakes in a terrestrial rack is troubling, to say the least. I won’t even comment on your stated reasons for doing so.

Although you may take what Seamus is telling you personally offensive, he is speaking the truth, and in the best interest of your collection, I urge you to take it to heart. It appears to me that you have decided to venture into a new realm, quite different than the world of balls; however, in doing so, you chose to either not research these animals enough, or chose to ignore the knowledge other experienced keepers have sacrificed so much to learn.

I am all for new and innovated thinking, but what you are doing is just repeating the mistakes already learned from long ago.

Good luck,
Bart

Guys, lets not get into a pissing contest here..

Now I'd say that I have a pretty good amount of experience with Emeralds. Now my first thought after seeing how Ed is keeping these guys was"You've got to be kidding" then I got to the part where he stated that they are all chowing down rats. Now I don't know how fresh these imports are or anything else about them but if they are eating they must be pretty comfortable, Stressed Emeralds don't eat well.. In the past I've worked on starting a whole bunch of imports, been through the birds and the hamsters ETC ETC waited 6 months or more for them to really get to eating decently, Imports can be real tough.

Here Ed states that he has these guys all eating and they seem to be doing well for him. I for one am interested in what he is doing and hope he post more info.

He has stated that if he runs into trouble he has other enclosures ready for them. I'm leaning towards wait and see here.. Randy

Seamus, Let me present it to you like this...

I have gone the traditional route to keeping arboreals, kept in a big open box with a perch with a heat lamp or a radiant panel baking them. most were spotty feeders at best and some would not feed at all.

The dark confines of these tubs I have them currently in are dark and secure, and the way all of them are feeding tells me they accept the conditions and are thriving. I can see this set-up neededs to be tweaked a little and if I cant achieve what Im trying to do with these, back into the big boxes they go.

Bart, I recognise I need to tweak my current set-ups...what I want to do is find taller boxes and install some perches up off the bottom. this is a work in progress, the fact that most of these are wild caught Emeralds that I have had only 6-8 weeks and every single one is eating rats with no regurge tells me Im on the right track.

Originally Posted by bsharrah

Ed,

Arboreals can be kept in a rack. This is nothing new. However, they should be in an arboreal rack using tubs with more height than 9” and elevated perches. What you are doing is called poor husbandry. To suggest that it is “thinking outside the box” is just sad.

Based on what I have seen on this forum, you are knowledgeable when it comes to balls and probably many other herps. To see someone of your apparent experience housing arboreal snakes in a terrestrial rack is troubling, to say the least. I won’t even comment on your stated reasons for doing so.

Although you may take what Seamus is telling you personally offensive, he is speaking the truth, and in the best interest of your collection, I urge you to take it to heart. It appears to me that you have decided to venture into a new realm, quite different than the world of balls; however, in doing so, you chose to either not research these animals enough, or chose to ignore the knowledge other experienced keepers have sacrificed so much to learn.

I am all for new and innovated thinking, but what you are doing is just repeating the mistakes already learned from long ago.

Good luck,
Bart

Heres a picture of what keeping Emeralds in a rack has meant to me. and anyone that has had to acclimate a wild caught Emerald knows exactly how hard it is to get some of these guys to eat! cant say how long I will keep them in these in racks, but it sure got them eating regular with all the stress of quarantine and parasite treatments. feeding is on weekends and I just threw this rat in to show you guys how good they eat in the dark rack. I am certainly not trying to say this is the way to keep these Boas but wanted to show a good set-up to get these started. Bottoms up

Feeding live or fresh prekilled in the dark doesn't really address the lack of depth and perches Ed. You're very, very difficult to talk to- most the time I can't figure out if you're simply ignoring anything that isn't what you want to hear or if you're genuinely that dense and ignorant.