Anyone Looking For Anolis Carolinensis?

You are both naive. The laws in place are not for some conspiracy to control citizens 'en mass' because the government you elected to have has nothing else to do. The restriction is not always to control the animal itself but the pathogens it carries. Even though Anolis carolinensis may be native to mainland United States, now that there is a population in Hawaii the Hawiian animals should not be allowed to be shipped back to the mainland. They have been exposed to tropical endoparasites, mites, and other comensurates that can present a harm to mainland wildlife and plant crops. So the only way to bring them "home" safely is to arrange to quarantine them for 3-4 months first.

It bothers me that there are people in the USA who can type a post and enter it into an online forum, but can't think a thought through enough to understand or even attempt to find a reason for why laws exist. If you don't appreciate the laws, vote for persons who can change them in the next local election.

Originally Posted by Matt K

You are both naive. The laws in place are not for some conspiracy to control citizens 'en mass' because the government you elected to have has nothing else to do. The restriction is not always to control the animal itself but the pathogens it carries. Even though Anolis carolinensis may be native to mainland United States, now that there is a population in Hawaii the Hawiian animals should not be allowed to be shipped back to the mainland. They have been exposed to tropical endoparasites, mites, and other comensurates that can present a harm to mainland wildlife and plant crops. So the only way to bring them "home" safely is to arrange to quarantine them for 3-4 months first.

It bothers me that there are people in the USA who can type a post and enter it into an online forum, but can't think a thought through enough to understand or even attempt to find a reason for why laws exist. If you don't appreciate the laws, vote for persons who can change them in the next local election.

That has absolutely nothing to do with why the law here is in place, it can't be shipped anywhere not just these species native ranges, so do me a favor and get off of your high horse. Further more I highly doubt that I'd be shipping Gold Dust Day Gecko's back to Madagascar I could easily see why they wouldn't be allowed to be exported back into their native range unless they were nearly extinct there and needed to be brought back for ecological purposes. However to protect them you would need to stop importing anything that could carry anything that would be detrimental to their health. That would basically stop imports of any kind anywhere because the main concern is protecting the native species at all costs. Chances are that because you're on this site you own something not native to your area so how is that any different? I never introduced these species, that was done by someone else, they are in large numbers here (particularly the Anoles) and I was looking at a way to make a business of exporting what is deemed as trash here by the local government.

I could send other species wherever the hell that I want as long as their states/countries are fine with them being imported and they are on my states approved species list. So please don't speak so surely about something that you clearly don't have an understanding of.

Matt, if anyone is being naive it is thee, if you think that elections today are free and fair and representative. You can't get elected Mayor or councilman without alot of money. Much less state office! If you live in the United States, you live in a pluto-oligarchy.

And, aside from the money angle, these new computerized voting machines can be used to steal any election you want (as long as you have the power to choose which machines to use and have your picked techs rig the software - software which is propriety and not open to inspection and verification by local election officials who may be honest). Look into BlackBoxVoting if you want your eyes opened.

As far as the conspiracy question, this is not the place to go into that. Suffice it to say that nigh on 8 years later there is still, still, a significant percentage of Americans who do not know that 9/11 was a "false-flag" operation. When a group of people has that kind of power, they can esssentially do anything.

The so-called Environmental Movement was good in the beginninig, but it was hijacked by certain groups of individuals some time ago to serve their ends. Read "The Report from Iron Mountain" sometime if you dare. "Enviro-Statism" is what it has been called by Mark Levin (q.v.). Since the whole ecological question is technical, and hence far beyond what laymen can know, it is the perfect vehicle for instituting all kinds of phoney regulations, which are used as a noose to tighten around the necks of you and me. The name of the game is power.

Shipping Anolis carolinensis from Hawai'i where they are an exotic species to the United States mainland has far fewer potential environomental risks than many things that have already happened. Was it hobbyists and guys like Bryan who want to start a cottage-industry, who released the fire ant into this country? No! it was "scientists" who were "studying them". Was it hobbyists and gardeners who intentionally planted Buffelgrass in the American southwest as a forage? and which has now proved a tremendous scourge? No! it was the smart guys in range management. How about Kudzu? Brought to the American south by misguided souls who thought that it would be a nice vine for they backyard? No! It was a government agency. Where's the "science" that addresses these pathogens that you are so worried about? It is easy to trot out some "danger" without anyone being able to verify it. Often these "dangers" originate from the desk of some anonymous bureacrat in some anonymous agency that knows very little about what they are regulating. And yet they have more power than a whole host of citizens who are merely trying to earn some money or "pursue their happiness".

Why should Hawai'i be the one regulating this commerce anyway? They are the one already with the problem; nothing is going to change that. And as far as importing Green Anoles into any particular mainland state, that regulation should be under the province of that state. It is so easy to pass a FEDERAL law than it is to review the situation state by state. Importing Anolis carolinensis into Montana is a helluva lot different from importing it into Georgia! A perfect example of this kind of knee-jerk regulation is the one currently being reviewed in Congress. HR 669. I am sure you have heard of it. It would basically shut down the entire pet industry in the United States! Why?

What is really more important? Passing blanket laws and regulations which do nothing more than create bureaucracies and laws restricting citizens' rights? or always erring on the side of personal liberty as outlined in the Constitution of the United States?

If all of this move towards more and more regulation were truly beneficent, that would be one thing. But when there is clear evidence for those "with eyes to see" that this is a concerted effort that has been going for many decades, and which has greatly accelerated in the last 8 years...then I get mad. This is nothing less than the usurpation of the sovereignty of the citizen and ultimately of the government of the United States of America into some "New World Order" world government. And it is far past time for citizens to stand up everywhere, even in forums like this, and challenge the opinions of those who are either pawns or active agents for this conspiracy.

Bryan S- obviously you are naive. Please read info at APHIS.gov regarding this matter or contact your local field agent you can explain it to you. I have spoken with them just 2 months ago about this very topic.

Gasteriaphile- obvisously has wreckless paranoia and buys into too much propoganda. You need to not read so many variations of conspiracy theories and bother to get on the phone and talk to you government agents. Go visit them. Anyone can get on thier schedule at some point, but so few bother. Most of them are middleclass people trying to make America function when its full of the uninformed as you seem to be.

On topic: According to the APHIS and the Customs department, I am right on target. Nothing alive can come to or from Hawaii legally without the proper permits, and the list of exceptions is pretty short. This goes for any reptile on the islands. Also, contact the Madagascan Embassy in Washington D.C. and you will find reptiles going from Hawaii to Madagascar is also not permitted, fyi.

Bottom line: Don't comment extensively on why you believe the government does something "wrong" or "bad" unless you have all the surrounding facts and can offer what you would or can do to make that situation better, or have done it correctly....and don't generalize when you speak about the authorities (terms like "the scientists" etc.) just to promote the illusion that you know what you speak about. Specify persons/departments in situations for us to all understand what you are saying.

Originally Posted by Matt K

Bryan S- obviously you are naive. Please read info at APHIS.gov regarding this matter or contact your local field agent you can explain it to you. I have spoken with them just 2 months ago about this very topic.

Gasteriaphile- obvisously has wreckless paranoia and buys into too much propoganda. You need to not read so many variations of conspiracy theories and bother to get on the phone and talk to you government agents. Go visit them. Anyone can get on thier schedule at some point, but so few bother. Most of them are middleclass people trying to make America function when its full of the uninformed as you seem to be.

On topic: According to the APHIS and the Customs department, I am right on target. Nothing alive can come to or from Hawaii legally without the proper permits, and the list of exceptions is pretty short. This goes for any reptile on the islands. Also, contact the Madagascan Embassy in Washington D.C. and you will find reptiles going from Hawaii to Madagascar is also not permitted, fyi.

Bottom line: Don't comment extensively on why you believe the government does something "wrong" or "bad" unless you have all the surrounding facts and can offer what you would or can do to make that situation better, or have done it correctly....and don't generalize when you speak about the authorities (terms like "the scientists" etc.) just to promote the illusion that you know what you speak about. Specify persons/departments in situations for us to all understand what you are saying.

Yeah, otherwise known as the the conditionally approved list. I have imported animals to Hawaii for over 10 years (albeit not very often) so I MIGHT know a thing or two about it. And BTW I made it a point to look into the idea instead of just doing it and then claiming ignorance of the law if I got caught.

But since I'm naive and you're so incredibly intelligent, I'll just walk away with my tail between my legs before I get banned from this great forum for arguing with someone about something I already know. Cheers

On topic:

Actually, this is the for sale or wanted section. A discussion is perhaps better suited in one of the discussion groups.

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

Actually, this is the for sale or wanted section. A discussion is perhaps better suited in one of the discussion groups.

My apologies for taking this thread OT, Bryan

Originally Posted by Bryan S

My apologies for taking this thread OT, Bryan

Ditto.