(Super) Hypo Tangerine = co-dominant?

I for one am now totally confused as to the genetic structure of the "hines" supers/hypos and whether or not they are line bred or dom/co-dom/inco-co-dom or what else have you.
I as well put in a nice email to Ray to see if he can explain things to me.It seems to me that a lot of people here each have a few pieces to the puzzle but when you put all the pieces together you still dont have the entire puzzle completed, maybe thats because all the pieces aren't figured out yet. As everyone keeps breeding and researching leopard geckos more and more pieces to the puzzle will be discovered and added to the overall picture. Until the puzzle is complete I don't think that anything is 100% fact. How many different morphs or phases are still laying in wait somewhere on the DNA strain of leopard geckos that havent been expressed yet, we don't know.
As long as we can come here in a civil manner to learn from one another (myself needing lots of help figuring this all out) we will inevitably gain far more knowledge then if we didnt share what we know.
P.S. Maybe you guys should send me some hypos,super-hypos,baldies and SHTCTB'S so I can start figuring this all out and be able to add to the genetics conversation from an intellegent first hand point of view!!!

Is the CT gene directly linked to the Ray Hine's Hypo line? I know that they are seperate genes but the way I read the post was that a SHCT is a Ray Hine's line and a SH is a line bred. I had always thought that the CT was linked to Tang.

It is my understanding that Ray Hine did indeed develop the 'carrot-tail' with his 'ghost' hypos, and Albey was among the first to begin crossing them into his tangerine line. The SHTCT's we see now are a result of those incomplete dominant/line bred crosses.

Originally Posted by Golden Gate Geckos

It is my understanding that Ray Hine did indeed develop the 'carrot-tail' with his 'ghost' hypos, and Albey was among the first to begin crossing them into his tangerine line. The SHTCT's we see now are a result of those incomplete dominant/line bred crosses.

Thanks Marcia,

That information is very intriguing. So that means that most of the Hypos out there have the Hine's bloodline in them somewhere as very few (not sure I have seen any) don't have CTs?

This is giving me a totally new look and excitement to breeding Hypos. Is there any were that I can find more background information on the line-bred tangs and hypos? I fully understand line-breeding for certain traits. However, I still don't comprehend how the line-bred hypos are not genetic to some degree and would like to further research this. I tried to do a search here but when I do it only pulls up the 200 most resent post and 90% of them are just photo posts

I am also looking for any information I can find on Pastels. I am in contact with Nicole Elliser over at K&N Reptiles but would love to hear from anyone else working with this morph.

~Jeff C.

i think pastels might be an offshoot of hypo melanism

So that means that most of the Hypos out there have the Hine's bloodline in them somewhere as very few (not sure I have seen any) don't have CTs?

As a generality, I would agree, but there are some really beautiful SHT's out there that do not have the 'classic' Ray Hine carrot-tail. The original Nieves, Albey, Masterpiece, Gourmet Rodent, etc. hypo-tangerines can have quite a bit of deep orange in the tail. There is a big difference in a hypo-tangerine gecko with the true carrot-tail... you will not see any black banding or spotting in the carroty part of the tail. Also, the Ray Hine lines tend to be a little bit longer/leaner in stature, and many develop that tell-tale spotting on the head and jawline after they are bred.

Just my observation...

Originally Posted by robin s.

i think pastels might be an offshoot of hypo melanism

I agree with you Robin. Even though Nicole from K&n does not consider the Pastel to be a hypo. It just seems to much of a coincidence that K&N's Pastel look so much like Ground Grecko Freak's Ghost. But I won't jump to any conclusions until I have had a chance to breed and test breed these morphs.

I have said it before and I'll say it again in the future. I think that hypomelinism can be created by more then just one set of genes. The same way we have 3 morphs of Albino. All having the same overall effect but each having their own atributes and variances.

~Jeff C.

Originally Posted by Golden Gate Geckos

As a generality, I would agree, but there are some really beautiful SHT's out there that do not have the 'classic' Ray Hine carrot-tail. The original Nieves, Albey, Masterpiece, Gourmet Rodent, etc. hypo-tangerines can have quite a bit of deep orange in the tail. There is a big difference in a hypo-tangerine gecko with the true carrot-tail... you will not see any black banding or spotting in the carroty part of the tail. Also, the Ray Hine lines tend to be a little bit longer/leaner in stature, and many develop that tell-tale spotting on the head and jawline after they are bred.

Just my observation...

So would these 2 Leos (2 shots of each) be most likely Hine's Hypos or line-bred Hypos?

This is Jigsaw





And this is Alley






Also if the true carrot-tail is linked to the Hine's Hypo then are Patternless with carrot-tails actualy Hypo Patternless Carrot-Tails?

~Jeff C.

I have said it before and I'll say it again in the future. I think that hypomelinism can be created by more then just one set of genes

in boas there are salmons and there are what are called pastels (pastel dream hypos being a combination of the two) not to mention orange tail hypos.

in hondurans there is a recessive hypo and the vanashing pattern hypo not to mention a reduced black linebred hypo that has less black tipping on the scales.

i have a pastel het bell albino one parent was a hypo she is lavendar , white no black and oranges and yellows

i forgot to add...

the reason i mention this is that a majority of the red tail boas, hondurans and leopard geckos that are commonly seen in the pet hobby are cross locality generic representations of their species.

although, it is possible all the strains of these mutations came from the same locality or subspecies. we may never know but mapping the leopard geckos genonome would be a step in the right direction.