Al Brown/ Liar

im still waiting for someone to answer my question, who the hell asks for definite lineage from any animal beyond the parents in the snake world. that is the craziest thing i have ever heard.
maybe if the seller has or has had questionable practices and sales in the past and has become public, that could be one thing, but this seller is well known and respected

yet another post where, if the majority says the op was out of line posting this thread, maybe that says something.

this is an internet forum, some degree of judgement has to be assessed. also, the world is full of judgements by people, its the way the world works. people judge, people get judged. welcome to life

Wow! It doesn't seem like history has taught some of us much.

It doesn't matter how many "friends and good customers" come to the seller's defense. This is a dissatisfied customer. Granted the buyer's timing is suspect, however; he does have a basis for his claim (imo) because the paper (that was sent to denote linage) is (obviously, given how many people are defending that "slip" of information as "good enough") not containing enough information to be considered an acceptable amount of information to be considered as lineage (which is what the buyer requested.)

If more people had said, that the amount of information on the paper (or words to that effect) was better or as good as most then the OP may have no grievance.

***I hope this makes sense..

Originally Posted by deborahbroadus

amount of information NEEDED to be considered as lineage (which is what the buyer requested.)

dang...a mistake.... correction noted in bold.

i agree to a point on that. however, its not considered the norm to ask for anything beyond the parents for genetics and lineage, at least in the snake world that i know.

my interpretation of this whole thread is pretty much the amount of time (or lack there of) that was given by the op to the seller (although on lineage paperwork that most generally do not have, meaning beyone the parents of said animal)

He got what he needed, just not what he wanted.

Some of the people, some of the time..... but you can not please everyone all of the time. Al just ended up being the lucky seller to the absurdly needy customer, which obviously, could not be pleased.

Originally Posted by reticguy76

i agree to a point on that. however, its not considered the norm to ask for anything beyond the parents for genetics and lineage, at least in the snake world that i know.

my interpretation of this whole thread is pretty much the amount of time (or lack there of) that was given by the op to the seller (although on lineage paperwork that most generally do not have, meaning beyone the parents of said animal)

That is true of how many breeders usually send and receive lineage papers, however; the customer does not think that our way is satisfactory, and this issue is a very SMALL matter (imo) that can be settled with, not our opinions (guilty) but paper, printer and ink on the seller's part (not an unreasonable request given that WE (breeders) normally accept this kind of documentation, but the BUYER does not.....no?

Originally Posted by JCCS

As much as this might be talking to a wall, here we go. Go and look at the paperwork that was sent, Chris. All of the pertinent information was there. If he just wanted a signature, I'm sure he could have stayed calm and asked Al for one once he got back from his vacation. Instead, he freaked out and came on here looking for everyone to be outraged that he was given only awesome paperwork, but not a signature.

Chris, you just seem to want to be combative. That's your prerogative, if you wish. I've bought plenty of hets that didn't come without paperwork, because I trusted the person that I bought them from. If I don't trust someone, I'm not buying a pet rock from them. I haven't been burned on a het yet. Let's face it, if Al or anyone else for that matter was going to rip someone off, they'd probably try it on an animal priced higher than $250, where the non-het version is worth $175. He's not going to lose his reputation over $75, it's just not financially sound.

Chris

Alright James. We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm no stranger to being called "combative" or "troll" or whatever here merely for disagreeing with the so called, self proclaimed, and often misguided masses here. Call me in a few years, maybe even ten years, and let me know if your statement... "Let's face it, if Al or anyone else for that matter was going to rip someone off, they'd probably try it on an animal priced higher than $250, where the non-het version is worth $175. He's not going to lose his reputation over $75, it's just not financially sound."... holds any water. I have a feeling that your experiences between now and then will change drastically. I'd put money on it. By the way, before one of the speech/grammar police here bust your balls, I understand what you meant even though you misworded it..."I've bought plenty of hets that didn't come without paperwork". Lastly, crooks would be happy to screw you for $2000 or $20. You'll see.

Originally Posted by Jesse Van Atta

He got what he needed, just not what he wanted.

Some of the people, some of the time..... but you can not please everyone all of the time. Al just ended up being the lucky seller to the absurdly needy customer, which obviously, could not be pleased.

He didn't get what he ASKED for. He asked for LINEAGE papers. WE ALL (or most) agree that LINEAGE is more than listing the first set of parents.

Originally Posted by deborahbroadus

That is true of how many breeders usually send and receive lineage papers, however; the customer does not think that our way is satisfactory, and this issue is a very SMALL matter (imo) that can be settled with, not our opinions (guilty) but paper, printer and ink on the seller's part (not an unreasonable request given that WE (breeders) normally accept this kind of documentation, but the BUYER does not.....no?

I completely agree with this.
People can say all they want about the OP being unreasonable. But the fact is he is asking for something that is/should be easy to do. So to me, he actually seems very reasonable.

I get that the title here is a bit rough, and maybe he didn't wait as long as many of us would have. I also get the the seller seems to be known and respected....it's just that none of that really matters. Pleasing your customer is what matters. (Especially considering what it would take to please him....not much)

I have had customers freak out on me for re-using a box for shipping. Not a beat up and unsafe box but a perfectly fine, I would be wasting if I threw it away box....That is what I call unreasonable! (Amongst many other things)

I have said it earlier in this thread, I think the seller can, should, and probably will fix this. I am guessing it was an honest mistake. Regardless of what WE all think is right or wrong, the fact remains that the OP didn't receive what he thought h should have.

Good luck to all involved. This seems like an easy fix to me.

then i would think if he doesnt like the way things are "normally" done with genetics, lineage and the paperwork, he will not do well and thrive in this hobby/business.

its great to want and request information, i respect that. however, what is questioned in my mind is the type of info he wants. i am no way a big breeder. i have bred some retics, some burms, a couple boa litters, even a cornsnake clutch (along with a few various other animals), however i dont consider myself a BREEDER. i have bred and sold animals, and i have bought animals. never once have i requested, or been requested to provide lineage paperwork beyone the parents, and what paperwork i have dealt with, have been done with in a normal timely fashion.

also, i respect the op for bringing this to the public for thoughts and responses. that being said, i think a bad guy title was way out of line and premaure, as opposed, to say, an inquiry or something along those lines. those big red x's stick around and thats what a lot of people see when they do searches, not all read through these threads, that turn out not to warrant the big red x