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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry.

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Old 10-31-2011, 11:28 AM   #21
ALBY
I have offered all info on the animal purchased as I do for everyone to this customer so here it is for you all to see.

The Albino Jungle sire was produced by me from a Jungle Het. Albino produced by Frank Martin and a Het Albino Produced by Robert Harmon.. The Albino Jungle Father was born in 08.

The Dame was produced by Peter Kahl from a Lipstick Hypo Het Albino Female and a Coral Albino Jungle Father... She was born in litter 19 of the 2006 Boa litters list on PK's site..

The father of this litter was an albino jungle and the mother was a Lipstick jungle Het albino produced by PK that is as much info as I have on them...

I offered picutures of the Albino Jungles Parents to Mr. Peterson and instead I have been labeled a liar with a complete premature BOI post..

A photo id with picture of the neonate and the father and a picture of the mother and her birth info was sent to the customer... That's as much lineage info as I have on them...

The photo id is lineage info as it has parental pictures and info on the dames parents that can't be saved off of Petes site because it is security protected. I disclose all info that I have on any animal to any customer... Mr. Peterson has proven to be totally impatient and insulting to me and I refuse to deal with grown children.. I was on vacation when this was brought to my attention and explianed in a Blackberry email I would be glad to send this info to him when I returned home on Monday October 31, 2011 and was able to get to my cpu.


I'm sorry that this wasn't enough info for Mr. Peterson...

Thanks to ShadowAceD for making me aware of this KOOK. The animal has also only been in Mr. Petersons possession for two weeks...

Thanks and have a great day...
 
Old 10-31-2011, 11:46 AM   #22
bwt501
From the pic provided by the OP that snake has more verifiable pedigree info attached to it than the guy mowing my lawn right now!
 
Old 10-31-2011, 11:48 AM   #23
allreptiles1966
So we call names now because lineage papers were not sent?
kook,whatever Al.Now you show who you really are.
A photo id is not lineage papers Al.Calling names because you lied to me is just childish on your part.
I have the same photo id on my pc that you sent.
You do know what lineage papers are,right?
I have lineage papers on all My "pr" blue pits from avatar above.It shows,mom,dad,grand parents and great grand parents and goes back 7 lines.
Al did send photo id only when asked! Would he have done so if i didnt ask?
I love the name calling from another adult saying i'm a child.Grow up.
I'm not going to play like your doing.
I stated what was stated to me,when you think 1 photo id is lineage papers,time to sell something else.
 
Old 10-31-2011, 11:49 AM   #24
FireStorm
I'm not a boa person, but I don't see any problem with the photo ID (unless the issue is simply that it's not signed, but I've received other photo IDs that weren't signed). It has pictures of the parents, and it states who produced them. I'm not really sure I understand what info is missing.
 
Old 10-31-2011, 11:50 AM   #25
smilts
I'm slightly torn. The email said all of his lineage information telling everything about him. Not all of his lineage information that was on hand. However the OP made it sound as if it were only a photo ID of the snake in question when it did in fact have the sire and dam as well. maybe a miscommunication?
 
Old 10-31-2011, 11:54 AM   #26
allreptiles1966
And i was not give the info above from Alby stating who was made by who,which is part of lineage!I have nothing stating anything was produced by Frank Martin
I said what i had to say about paper work.If i'm wrong and you guys think an un signed photo id is lineage papers,please state and i will apologize as any real man would.
I have better paper work(lineage) from a no name breeder.
Al didnt even sign the papers.Now in 2 years will he state he didnt sell me this boa??
Rich
 
Old 10-31-2011, 12:04 PM   #27
FireStorm
I don't think its fair to expect a pedigree like you'd get with a purebred dog or horse with a snake since there's no central record keeping organization or registry. I also think you're jumping the gun in assuming that 2 yrs from now Al is going to say he didn't sell you the boa just because he didn't sign the paperwork. I've purchased hets with paperwork (some signed, some unsigned), and hets without. The reality is that all the paperwork I've seen so far would be fairly easy to fake. I save emails to go with it and purchase hets from people I trust, but that's all that can be done IMO.

Horses are DNA tested when they are registered, but since there's no registry no one does that for snakes...
 
Old 10-31-2011, 12:09 PM   #28
allreptiles1966
I did not assume anything! I only asked what if.I really am not worried about what he says in 2 years.
Jungle paper work is very important and does have lineage to go back as far as Lars.
Yes,some people do keep all records of birthing boas,just as i do.
Maybe Al should have explained what lineage papers are to him.
I have bred blue pits for years and lineage to me is a genetic make up of said pup to be sold.
1 set of parents are not lineage,he should have included what 2 boa's made the albino he produced to breed with the 05 jungle.Al said(i think)in above that Frank Martin had made 1 of the boas Al used.Thats part of lineage.
 
Old 10-31-2011, 12:19 PM   #29
Wolfy-hound
Those papers look sufficient to me to qualify as lineage paperwork, sorry. Not all paperwork is going to go back 7 generations. Dogs that have a registry are not the same as snakes, since the idea of papered bloodlines is a century old with dogs, not so with snakes.

They aren't signed, true, but they qualify as paperwork and they are a photo ID which along with your emails of purchase, would show that snake was bought from that seller at that date. A boa's markings don't change so 2 years or 10 years, you should be able to use that photo ID.

When did you receive the snake? And did you get a message saying that he would send your info when he came back from vacation?

For the seller, if you were unable to send the info until the 31st, why were you able to send the photo lineage/ID earlier? Did you consider the photo ID to be the lineage or were you intending to mail him a secondary paperwork with the rest of the info that you have(i.e. the lineage you mentioned in your post here)?

For the OP again, did you specify in your original deal in buying the snake that you REQUIRED XX number of generations of lineage? Knowing the parents is normally what *I* think of in knowing the parentage of any particular snake. If I want further back info(i.e. what produced the mom, what line of pastel a snake is out of, etc) I ask before I agree to buy the animal.
 
Old 10-31-2011, 12:19 PM   #30
deborahbroadus
Quote:
Originally Posted by allreptiles1966 View Post
And i was not give the info above from Alby stating who was made by who,which is part of lineage!I have nothing stating anything was produced by Frank Martin
I said what i had to say about paper work.If i'm wrong and you guys think an un signed photo id is lineage papers,please state and i will apologize as any real man would.
I have better paper work(lineage) from a no name breeder.
Al didnt even sign the papers.Now in 2 years will he state he didnt sell me this boa??
Rich
I understand your concerns. I agree that it's wise to cover all the bases on your (seller's) end when being on the buyer end. By this, I mean that while in the "buyer" mode, one needs to be aware of how they will be able to move the animal later and having a SIGNED document is something that one can refer to and is not likely to be labled a "forgery" as it can be verified.

What do you think the buyer can do to make you a satisfied customer? Do you need more history on the animal's document and a signature? Can you outline exactly what you want on the document? Is the seller willing to create another document that would satisfy the buyer?

**Personally, when buying an animal (BP) if there's a signed document, I usually contact the original seller to verify that he did sell the animal and the documents are not forged, before making a purchase. If someone is trying to pawn unsigned genetic/paternity documents on me, I usually just pass.
 

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