is usark over stepping its rights by proposing rules for states without asking us

Originally Posted by jenkznza

I think that this thread leaves out a very large issue. We all want to protect our personal freedoms as reptile keepers, yet we have to realize that we represent a very small percentage of the population. To those outside the reptile community a keeper of large constrictors or venomous snakes could be considered a hazard to the community. Putting laws on the books to protect both the reptile keeper and the general public is a smart move on our part. Being proactive instead of reactionary would be even better! Reacting only when a ban is eminent doesn’t say much for our community. It makes us look like we’ve been hiding what we’ve been up to.

tell what good did the rules in FL do to prevent a dead two year old and what good did those rules do to stop the state from over reacting and calling for an out right ban.

The rules in FL were reactive in nature. They were put in place to prevent a problem that all ready existed. Life doesn't work that way. You can't prevent something that has all ready occurred. As far as the dead two year old goes. Lets look at the parents. Would you take pictures of a burm in the crib with your dead child then leave it with the child until the police arrived? Think about it. These parents had child abuse charges filed against them previous to this. They also were possession of this animal illegally. Had they obtained the proper permit and inspection the snake wouldn't have been in an aquarium with a cloth draped over it.

I bet if Floridians had the opportunity to go back in time they would have put a stop to the exotics trade in Florida before it began. Its a shame, but their environment is conducive to invasive species. We all saw the writing on the wall for Florida. It wasn't a surprise.

The issue is how do we handle reptile related issues across the U.S.? If we don't self regulate, we will be regulated. Putting your head in the sand and pretending that no one can see you won't work. We are a very public community. Open your eyes and ears. Look around at what's going on and tell me that we aren't going to be regulated. It'll happen in every state eventually. I'd much rather be on the one leading the proverbial regulatory hose than they one with shovel following behind!

Reptile Ban??????????????? Go get'em USARK!!!!! THANK YOU FOR HAVING OUR BACK!
I do not understand why these cities want to Ban reptiles. Do they have any clue what this would do to local mom and pop businesses. There is already a problem with the economy why do they not think or care about the big picture. I have a family business that sells reptiles and it is one of our ways of survival. We care for the reptiles and who they are sold to and would never jeopardize, the industry as well as the care for the reptile. I have a deep feeling there is a bigger problem than what we can see. I believe big corporations are killing off small businesses to become kings. I am tired of these people killing jobs, and taking advantage of us mom and pop companies!!!!!!!!! I want to thank USARK for really stepping up and trying to fight this! I have so much respect for them and pray for their success!

This is legislation proposed by USARK? And they are representing the interests of reptile keepers?

Permits and Micro chipping for large constrictors minimum cage requirements, These are from those represent reptile keepers?

I can't believe anyone is going onlong with this. Permits are required in Ohio for natives. Now ODNR wants to bring in the exotics to propose a $1,000 fee for large constrictors and venomous. The current proposed legislation includes all constrictors(corn snakes)

Guess what else you get with permits (no warrents required). ODNR was threatening to break down doors to check black ratsnakes for PIT tags in Ohio just a few years ago.

In USARK own website it states "No member of the public, no emergency responder, no innocent bystander has ever been seriously injured or killed by a captive reptile in the United States."

What is the need for regulation?

Matt...these are "compromise" regulations as such. If given the choice between having these animals banned completely, and making these sacrifices...which would you choose?

Originally Posted by mbm6

This is legislation proposed by USARK? And they are representing the interests of reptile keepers?

Permits and Micro chipping for large constrictors minimum cage requirements, These are from those represent reptile keepers?

I can't believe anyone is going onlong with this. Permits are required in Ohio for natives. Now ODNR wants to bring in the exotics to propose a $1,000 fee for large constrictors and venomous. The current proposed legislation includes all constrictors(corn snakes)

Guess what else you get with permits (no warrents required). ODNR was threatening to break down doors to check black ratsnakes for PIT tags in Ohio just a few years ago.

In USARK own website it states "No member of the public, no emergency responder, no innocent bystander has ever been seriously injured or killed by a captive reptile in the United States."

What is the need for regulation?

thanks for your post. im glad im not the only one that see's the problem with usark proposing rules. everyone keeps saying we need to self regulate but what usark is proposing is not self regulation. i suggested some self regulation here on fauna. i suggested that fauna ban people that are well known scammers and scumbags and they said they cant because they will be libel yet they can ban me for for swearing and can give people good guy certifications and they can do that and not be libel somehow.

You're still all over the place.

You break the rules, you get infractions until you get a ban. Simple.

The site doesn't give a 'good guy' certification. The members who post good guy points give any given person a good guy certification.

The truth is, you don't want to hear the truth and reality. The laws in Florida prohibiting the "big five" are WHY we need regulations like USARK proposed. We'd still be able to have responsible keepers if regulations were proposed before all the knee jerk laws were thrown up. No one expected sudden legislation, and yes, it was sudden.

There's regulation on almost every type of animal kept in the US. There's regulations about dogs and cats, to believe that exotics just should be swept under the rug and ignored isn't plausible any more.

I think about it like this; If USARK, who is taking the fight to them on our behalf, doesn't draft legislation for the keeping of reptiles, who will? It will be a politician who has never owned a reptile, never has, and never will.

Meaning they will not care if you have locks on your cages, or you're very responsible. They're JUST snakes to them.

I'm going to get this out here and no need to post it in the other thread as rodney is reading this as well.
USARK has their model legislation based off of the NC law.
There is NO chipping, permits, licenses, inspections, fees, registrations, ot tags for "certain reptiles" as the bill says. "Certain reptiles' can also be seen in the same light as Florida's reptiles of concern. Okay?
Now, there are caging and transport container standards for-
crocs (as far as I know caimen are not affected)
venomous
big 5 constrictors: retics, burms, african rocks, anacondas, scrub pythons (don't ask me why they get lumped in, I can't think of anyone I know that keeps them)
With hots they need locking/latching enclosures, species names and venomous reptile on containers/enclosures and a bite protocol with species name and anti-venom in case EMS finds you face down on your reptile room floor. You can print out these from some hot keeping websites.
Crocs and big constrictors should have locking/latching enclosures and the name of species on containers or enclosures. This makes sense, I don't want to see burm in tanks with bricks or books holding down the top. Never a good thing.
Escape notifications on everything should you have something make it out of the house. Also, even if you are bitten by your venomous, as long as it is found you complied with caging standards and bite protocols, you'll get it back should you recover.
If you do not stick to these simple and realistic standards you will be charged with a misdemeanor and animals may be confiscated that you violated the law with.
No inspections means that if there is no incident to give law enforcement reason to search, no one is even going to know you have it unless you tell 'em.
There is also a part about using a 'certain reptile' to harass, intimidate or threaten someone. Misdemeanor.
This it in full text
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Sessions...PDF/S307v4.pdf

As far as Ohio; what put Ohio in the crosshairs of animal rights groups is that there was little to no regulation statewide while many other states do have regulations. USDA only overseees big cats, bears and such if the owner is a breeder or exhibition (private zoos, sanctuaries that give tours). Thompson did not breed or exhibit his animals. Therefore not one agency inspected his conditions. Other members of the big cat community did reach out to him to take some of his animals months prior. Signs some people knew something was up with him. He had also just got out of prison for weapons charges. It is said during this time his animals were not cared for properly in his absence.
So no laws at all in Ohio over private ownership is what really got HSUS attention and made them prime target. They were looking at this prior to Sam Mazzola's odd death. The 90 day Strickland ban was their extortion of the agricultural community to throw the exotics folks under the bus. HSUS wanted a permanent ban but Strickland had to make it executive order as he was going out and Kasich coming in. Kasich let the ban expire. Really urinating all over vegan breakfast cereal. Do they eat cornflakes? I dunno. What's for sure is it really stirred the hive.
Wether Thompson killed himself as reports claim or if he was killed as some say; irrelevant. The fact that Ohio had no regulation made them a target and if he was killed; that made him a target as well. Still with me?
Either way you cut it, the lack of regulation in Ohio is what attracted the animal rights groups to that state. In a way, it really shows how a good offense will be our best defense against the bombardment of bills and bans. If Ohio keepers of the big exotics had taken those 90 days to put a proactive plan into the rulemaking process and been by keeper for keeper then HSUS would never have had the input and pull they had over the proposed Ohio ban in current form.
We have to learn from moments like these and work together if we are to survive.
I don't like it any more than anyone else. No herpers wanted to get political. 10 years ago it was far from my mind that I would ever have to get into this mess. But hindsight is 20/20 and here we are. Until someone comes up with a better plan I'm with the ARK.