Josh@Outbackreps

Originally Posted by twistedtails

Well, I have been hesitant to post my experience, but, I will post it here. I bought a couple animals from Josh back in January(1.0 Black Pastel het Hypo and 0.2 Het Hypos). They came in looking healthy, but, within a few weeks one came down with respritory infection ...

I'm not questioning the validity of your story...at this point, you haven't shown anything that would make me think you're lying. But your story begs some questions...

The snakes came in looking healthy. You couldn't tell one was sick. So how would Josh (or anyone at Outback) supposed to assume one of the animals might be sick? In fact...the animal didn't get sick for "a few weeks"... How is that Outback's responsibility after that much time has passed? Just because you quarantined carefully does not mean an animal can not get sick.

How long is a breeder supposed to guarantee the health of an animal once it has left their control??? But even so, they offered to work with you. Whether or not you choose to do business with them again is entirely up to you, obviously....but you've said nothing here that paints them in a bad light....at least none that I can see.

Originally Posted by -C@jun-

Don't worry about these chillins they have nothing better to do or a life at that.


OK went to my buds house this morning. He says she is to skinny. He thinks the flair over vent is just because she is skinny. He didn't even want to probe her because of it. Just his 2 cent. I will still go to the exotics specialist next week.

Again, that "flair" is called her pelvic girdle, if you google anatomy and bone structure, you will see that I'm most likely correct

Originally Posted by -C@jun-

Don't worry about these chillins they have nothing better to do or a life at that.

Actually, I go to school full time and work full time as well as care for an array of animals and spend time with my spouse. I am not the only one with such a life either, so you go ahead and keep on making assumptions about everyone here. The fact you are bitter at the whole community for being called out on your immaturity and foolishness escapes none of us, I assure you.

You are just resorting to insults, sublte or not, because you did not get what you wanted and that just has you taking it out on anyway. Nevermind the fact that you were offered a more than fair offer in return.

At this point, no matter what is wrong with the animal, your attempts to get a partial refund for a kink that never was have been proven to have no real baring or weight. Maybe the animal is a bit skinny, but maybe you injured it, or maybe it is some random birth defect that is hardly visible in photographs that all, for whatever reason (mysteriously), are blurry and poorly focused. The fact of the matter is this, Josh offered a full refund for the return of the animal, you refused it because of some supposed attachment to an animal you barely had. This has been stated over and over again and, at this point, a dead horse has been beaten into a pulp. You have not provided any true veterinarian opinions to validate any claims. Hear say from your friend means nothing. You are a self proclaimed newbie and expect us to respect your position when you unjustly attacked someone and posted a Bad Guy Thread on them like a child have a hissy fit.

Maybe holding your breath and stomping around until you pass out would have been more productive.

Also, go ahead and post an invoice proving you brought it to a vet that supposedly deals with exotics but hasn't dealt with BPs in years and is no longer comfortable with x-raying or probing them. I find that to be a bit ridiculous in all honesty. Go ahead and prove me wrong though.

Please cease your childish mockery of this business. Also, do the reptile community and your animals a favor and do not breed them. I fear for their well-being, especially since you still plan on breeding her as she matures without knowing if something is wrong with her. That was something in my previous post you did fail to acknowledge. So, I suppose I will ask again:

Why keep and intend to breed an animal that may have a defect instead of getting your money back and making another investment in another animal? Why risk killing that female or having the babies born with congenital defects that could keep them from thriving or force you to put them down?

Answer that for me, if you would.

Originally Posted by JudyC

I'm not questioning the validity of your story...at this point, you haven't shown anything that would make me think you're lying. But your story begs some questions...

The snakes came in looking healthy. You couldn't tell one was sick. So how would Josh (or anyone at Outback) supposed to assume one of the animals might be sick? In fact...the animal didn't get sick for "a few weeks"... How is that Outback's responsibility after that much time has passed? Just because you quarantined carefully does not mean an animal can not get sick.

How long is a breeder supposed to guarantee the health of an animal once it has left their control??? But even so, they offered to work with you. Whether or not you choose to do business with them again is entirely up to you, obviously....but you've said nothing here that paints them in a bad light....at least none that I can see.

I have 40 other snakes in my collection and (knock on wood) they are all healthy. Isn't it ironic that the only sick animals are from Josh and in quarantine? What I'm not going to do is play the run around on here. I have bigger fish to fry. All I was doing was sharing my experience. You can make whatever conclusions you would like from my post. Bad guy...Good guy? That is on you. I'll tell you what...I'll sell you the female that was sick and I treated. If she comes up sick later(it could show up again at some point right?), I will tell you that it has been too long and offer you a discount on future animals. You in? Is it possible that this animal was sick at one point and treated? Is it possible that the ride from east coast to west coast triggered it? Is it possible that having spot on husbandry, that the sickness took a bit longer to show up?

For the recoed. About the whole selling a once sick animal to you thing, I was joking. These animals have become a life long resposibility of mine due to the fact that he did not want to replace them. I would never sell an animal that was sick at one point. It is in my best interest to avoid a thread about myself like this.

Originally Posted by twistedtails

For the recoed. About the whole selling a once sick animal to you thing, I was joking. These animals have become a life long resposibility of mine due to the fact that he did not want to replace them. I would never sell an animal that was sick at one point. It is in my best interest to avoid a thread about myself like this.

No worries...at least, not on my behalf, anyhow. I knew you were just making a point.

Originally Posted by twistedtails

I have 40 other snakes in my collection and (knock on wood) they are all healthy. Isn't it ironic that the only sick animals are from Josh and in quarantine? What I'm not going to do is play the run around on here. I have bigger fish to fry. All I was doing was sharing my experience. You can make whatever conclusions you would like from my post. Bad guy...Good guy? That is on you. I'll tell you what...I'll sell you the female that was sick and I treated. If she comes up sick later(it could show up again at some point right?), I will tell you that it has been too long and offer you a discount on future animals. You in? Is it possible that this animal was sick at one point and treated? Is it possible that the ride from east coast to west coast triggered it? Is it possible that having spot on husbandry, that the sickness took a bit longer to show up?

Mike, When I asked about e-mails, I honestly was neither trying to be negative nor get you on the defensive. I can totally relate to working all kinds of hours, as well as taking care of many animals; however, I've always gotten everything in writing (including TOS and any other guarantees) so that I have a leg to stand on if anything ever happens.

But I have to agree with Judy when she asked, "How long is a breeder supposed to guarantee the health of an animal once it has left their control???"

If you sold me an animal, I received it and told you everything looked great...but a few weeks later I contacted you and said, "My snake just got sick." Would you offer me anything?? I honestly have great husbandry practices, but how would you know what happened to that animal, in my care, for a few weeks??

Originally Posted by Matt2979

Mike, When I asked about e-mails, I honestly was neither trying to be negative nor get you on the defensive. I can totally relate to working all kinds of hours, as well as taking care of many animals; however, I've always gotten everything in writing (including TOS and any other guarantees) so that I have a leg to stand on if anything ever happens.

But I have to agree with Judy when she asked, "How long is a breeder supposed to guarantee the health of an animal once it has left their control???"

If you sold me an animal, I received it and told you everything looked great...but a few weeks later I contacted you and said, "My snake just got sick." Would you offer me anything?? I honestly have great husbandry practices, but how would you know what happened to that animal, in my care, for a few weeks??

To be completely honest, I would tell you to send the animal back. A het Ghost female at 400 grams when you have a substatial collection is not worth the problems.

Originally Posted by twistedtails

To be completely honest, I would tell you to send the animal back. A het Ghost female at 400 grams when you have a substatial collection is not worth the problems.

Fair enough. It was a sincere question, as I'm trying to determine what is fair to use as my own TOS. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head offering more than 7 days and LOTS guaranteeing nothing more than live arrival and sex.

Personally, I thought Outback's offer was more than fair for the OP, but don't really know enough about your situation to form a fair, educated opinion. I'd like to offer a one year guarantee for my animals, but these are not manufactured products; they're living animals that can get sick easily if improper care is given.

I sincerely hope that you're animals continue to get better and stay well.

Originally Posted by Matt2979

Mike, When I asked about e-mails, I honestly was neither trying to be negative nor get you on the defensive. I can totally relate to working all kinds of hours, as well as taking care of many animals; however, I've always gotten everything in writing (including TOS and any other guarantees) so that I have a leg to stand on if anything ever happens.

But I have to agree with Judy when she asked, "How long is a breeder supposed to guarantee the health of an animal once it has left their control???"

If you sold me an animal, I received it and told you everything looked great...but a few weeks later I contacted you and said, "My snake just got sick." Would you offer me anything?? I honestly have great husbandry practices, but how would you know what happened to that animal, in my care, for a few weeks??

Also when I asked Josh for guaranties he told me that "He works for Outback Reptiles and at the end of the day his name stands". Again, using the established name as a "crutch". When problems arose, the verbal guaranty was turned into a "I can give you a discount". When he denied me the writen guaranty I shoud have told him I wasn't interested. My bad. As I stated before, I will treat this last girl that is sick and raise her up and hope she doesn't get sick during the breeding process.