The Serpentarium- Lodi, Ca

Originally Posted by GBU Enterprises

I remember when Brandon came into the shop for the first time. He told me he had just purchased a captive bred red tailed green rat from The Serpentaium. He asked me if it was normal for a captive bred animal to have red bumps on its body and I said no, that it could be either "blisters" from being kept in very poor conditions or it could be subcutaneous parasites which are not found in captive bred animals. We talked about his choice as this is his first snake. He said he had well researched their care, spent a lot of money for its habitat including a humidifying system and was also sold uvb and basking lights( which according to Freight Freitas as quoted from his website " I particularly prefer heat pads for babies and juveniles, as light bulbs can be very drying to the air, which could promote dehydration, as well as shedding issues.") and knew that a captive bred animal was the only way to go. He had a set idea in his mind to the type of snake he wanted and the Gonyosoma oxycephala fit the bill. I told him I would be more than happy to check it out, but at that time he wasn't concerned as he had been assured by Robert at the Serpentarium that it would resolve quickly.

He didn't think he needed pictures, he trusted Robert Coral.

He is a newbie with a good heart.

He brought the animal in on 8-24-2012. The pictures are the ones we took of him. There are blisters present over his back. There is scale rot scars to the ventrals with scars and some broken ribs present on its body. There has been some sort of injury? to the right aspect of the head where as the animal holds his mouth oddly. There was also a mild upper respiratory infection present. He asked us what to do and we told him he needs to return it. He came back rather quickly and told us that Robert said he was sorry he shouldn't have sold him the animal as captive bred and he would refund his money. Brandon had been caring for this animal for that last couple weeks and does genuinely care about it. So when he asked Robert what was going to happen to it and was told either returned to importer or euthanized he was upset. He asked that a refund be made to compensate for the additional care this Captive bred, now imported animal would need. When Robert told him he was a business man that he couldn't do that, he took the animal and brought it to us. If I as a business person,( and I have been told too many times i am not a good business person because I care to much) had sold an animal under those conditions I would have refunded him his money and given him the snake because of my mistake/dishonesty.

He is simply just some one who cares for his snake. Should he have accepted it initially. As seasoned reptile people we all know the answer to that is NO, but early in my career, or really it was my hobby at that time I had purchased some iffy animals with the hope of bringing them around. But I did not have the word of Robert Coral( from The Serpentarium - A Living Reptile Museum (est. 1989) Your TRUE Reptile Specialists! (which is in itself a lie because The Great Valley Serpentarium was established in 1989, not The Serpentariium, which was "acquired" from Bill aprox. 3 years ago.) ) saying it would get better soon. He is a newbie, he made the mistake of trusting.
It appalls me that people are accusing him of trying to get money out of Robert. When he left that shop with his animal he wanted nothing else to do with that establishment. He just wanted to inform people that he had special ordered a captive bred animal and received a wild caught import instead. The Serpentarium took advantage of his naivete and ignorance on how dark our industry can be.

We should be here for the newbies, we should be supportive of them, not crucify them because they try to go up against a larger establishment.
You have to excuse Brandon's sarcastic remark about the 10 minute shopping spree because he truly has no desire to ever enter that establishment again.

Here are the pictures

First I applaud you and your going above and beyond in your business practices. How ever I must disagree with your point about a business trying to take advantage of a person's naivety. As a animal lover and a adult I believe it's my responsibility to be as informed as possible before a purchase. Truly we must all hold some accountability for the things that happen to us rather than blame the world for not doing a better job of protecting us. We must educate ourselves about our passions. I have yet to buy a unhealthy animal as I make sure I'm fully versed in their care before hand. Is not the OP then also responsible as he planned on taking on a animal that he didn't know enough about to discern that blisters on the body may be a cause for concern? Doesn't that say something about how prepared he was for it's care? If we are to hold be accountable should we not all be held to an equal standard?

On one hand, you say Brandan researched Gonyosoma and was familiar with their care requirements, and on the other hand, you condemn Robert for selling him products he did not need to care for the animal.

Which is it? If Brandan did his research, then he would know they do not need basking lights or UVB. Sounds like you are making excuses for Brandan in an effort to make up for his complete lack of tact in handling the situation. Are you also his PR rep in addition to being his vet? lol

Originally Posted by DavidBeard

That snake looks better than a lot of the freshly imported Gonoyosoma I have seen over the years.



Uhhh......no, most religion does not. Do 'The Crusades' ring a bell? As much as I hate seeing the topic of religion brought into a business discussion regarding reptiles (especially Christianity, which has villified snakes for thousands of years), heres a very accurate depiction of how religions view each other:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55h1FO8V_3w

Back to topic....it sounds like the OP bite off more than he could chew, and tried to backtrack and recover funds from his goof up of choosing the wrong species to work with.

You are correct perhaps I should have not brought religion back into the discussion in an attempt to prove a point. I will say how ever that most religion does promote such things but then throughout history it's shown that people purposefully have twisted the original ideals to fit their personal agenda's. The Crusades is a perfect example of such a thing. As for your standpoint concerning the transaction I believe we are in accord on that one.

Maybe I missed this somewher, but if you were looking for a specific type of animal, and a retail store said, I can order this from you, why woundnt you ask, can the person you are ordering the animal from send a pic to either the retail store person, then on to you, or directly to you??

As one of the examples above, if you went to a car lot and wanted a car that they didnt have, but they could get it for you, wouldnt you want to either see pics and/or have them bring it to you prior to committment of purchase ??

I have been in a fairly similar situation before. At a reptile show, I went a table (a few years ago, dont remember whos table it was) and they had a lesser ball python. They guy said that he didnt bring the nicer looking sibling to the show, since he was going to hold it back, but while at the show decided to go ahead and let it go. Well, I could have said, yes Ill take it and paid for it and then have him ship it to me. Instead, I told him I was interested, but to take a couple pics when he got home and send them to me. Well, glad I did, because the snake wasnt anywhere near how he verbally described it to me.

So, my point is, one just doesnt impulse buy something because you found someone that says they can get you said merchandise. You get proof and pics and find out as much as possible for yourself, rather than rely on solely word of that person. My assumption, is that had you asked for pics from the person orginally in possession of the snake, and seen the skin issues for yourself, you would have said, no thanks, ill pass and keep looking.

Remember people. He is an inexperienced buyer who was excited about his first snake purchase. Are we all so jaded we can't remember that joy. I still will buy things I know I shouldn't because I hope I can get it to aclimate. This year we hatched a captive hatched sunbeam that is eating ft pinks. Next year I am hoping for cb as the fresh import male is doing extremely well and feeding on mice. We have second generation cb mangroves! This is why we are here, for the joy and thrill of it not to bash newcomers. Embrace them, help them learn and we will have valuable new members of our community.

Originally Posted by GBU Enterprises

This is why we are here, for the joy and thrill of it not to bash newcomers. Embrace them, help them learn and we will have valuable new members of our community.

Had he come to the forums with questions or seeking advice, we would have spent time helping and giving suggestions. Instead, he attacks the honor of this seller, and asks for shopping sprees.

I was once new and we all were. Being does not given anyone license to come on here and behave the way the OP has behaved.
If he opens a thread in the forums, I think many would still help, but he is not doing himself any favors with his responses.

Robert, did you ever see the snake before you sold it?

Brandon, when and why did you ask for a refund?

Please keep your answers as short as possible.

Further questions to come.

Well ,I see inexperience as an explanation for some of the OP's misgivings ,but "special order" usually has an implied meaning ,was the order "more special" because there were w/c Oxy's there already ?Also ,this 'sorry for not making myself clearer" does not pass the smell test .

That's a line used when damage control is involved .The seller offered a refund with a caveat...EUTHANIZATION,maybe the buyer wasn't too thrilled about that ,and at that point he is making his own choices ,but the appearance of that snake shows w/c in fair condition ,but nothing speaks c/b about that snake in the pic .My .02(darn run on sentences)

Originally Posted by GBU Enterprises

Remember people. He is an inexperienced buyer who was excited about his first snake purchase. Are we all so jaded we can't remember that joy. I still will buy things I know I shouldn't because I hope I can get it to aclimate. This year we hatched a captive hatched sunbeam that is eating ft pinks. Next year I am hoping for cb as the fresh import male is doing extremely well and feeding on mice. We have second generation cb mangroves! This is why we are here, for the joy and thrill of it not to bash newcomers. Embrace them, help them learn and we will have valuable new members of our community.

I myself am new to the hobby at least as far as reptiles as I've kept fish and other pets for awhile. So I'm aware of the whole joy of buying your first snake, but my joy comes from doing my best to maintain my pets to the best of my abilities. That starts with being informed. I personally didn't buy my first reptile till I had done quite a bit of research despite my enthusiasm. I controlled myself and spent a couple of months searching forums and buying books trying to familiarize myself with my intended pet. In my opinion in dealing with live animals and in consideration of them it's more so my responsibility to educate myself when compared to buying other things. That is just my opinion though.

It was sarcasm. I never thought anyone would take that seriously. To the car commit this is not a car this is not $20,000.00, it is $100.00 and there is greater principals with living creatures than with a car. Especially, when your representing your name and business.
I admit I am a newbie, I did however, research hours about the species and for the care and husbandry. I probably was over my head somewhat but I'm confident in my ability as a fast learner. If I was given a healthy gonyo I feel I wouldn't be on here right now. Especially if I was given a captive bred gonyo. There were a total of four bumps not two when I received him. Being the professional Robert claims to be; he should have never given me the option to take the snake home. If this is an example of were he gets his special order reptiles his standards are low. We all know that his standards are not low so what else could it be? He simply took advantage of me being naive in this industry.