Craig Martin - proceed with caution

Originally Posted by reptileexperts

the extent of that snout damage could VERY easily have happened while it was stuck in a 41qt tub or while it was in the bag pushing during transit.

Did... did you even look at the original Ad he posted? You can VERY easily see that the mouth is messed up in those pictures. It was also a VERY poor attempt to cover it up with the angle Craig took the pictures at.

The seller didn't deny it had the snout issues tho. He simply said he sent pics. To me that says he knew it was there and the buyer should have noticed it in the pics. Plus had it happened overnight in the tub wouldn't there be some sort of signs in the tub like blood or something?

Originally Posted by juliasara

Plus had it happened overnight in the tub wouldn't there be some sort of signs in the tub like blood or something?

No these guys can push and cause face swelling but not break their skin.

When they really get going they put an insane amount of force on their teeth and jaws.

Originally Posted by bcr229

No these guys can push and cause face swelling but not break their skin.

When they really get going they put an insane amount of force on their teeth and jaws.

This. The snout may have had some minor deformity before due to it likely being a chronic pusher. I have a male 50% SD F2 Tiger that is around 11' and he was an absolutely killer pusher when he was in a tub / 4' vision when he was younger. With him in a 6' cage now, he still pushes from time to time, but never to the point of any further damage - but he did clef his front scales some at a young age from it. In the OP's images it looks like the swelling is fresh - I've had a snake do that overnight to that extent. Sometimes you can change the cage up, other times its feeding a large meal, and even other times you can put a warm two liter bottle of water inside the cage for them to knock around - almost like its a boredom thing in some cases. . .

Anytime legal aspects come into play (10' under legislation) the OP should stick with strictly pure SD stock, or 75% SD Stock with known lines from breeders who track it thoroughly. I've preached SD Retic sizing and misrepresentation for years - BCR can attest to this. It's always going to be a gamble when any mainland blood is present.

If the images clearly show facial destruction in the images sent, the seller should have addressed it. So yes, this needs better addressing from the sellers side of the story.

Originally Posted by reptileexperts

I just wanted to add in defense of the seller - the face smashing is normal, regardless of what some people may say it happens a lot and is MOST of the time correctable.

I wasn't aware of that, I guess I've been lucky. I only have a handful of retics but have never had issues with pushing unless they're hungry.

I definitely noticed the mouth issue as soon as I saw the picture in the ad, but someone who wasn't paying much attention might not...it should have been mentioned, even if it is normal. And like Utta said, you can tell from the angle of the picture that he was trying to hide it.

Ok people she is leaving outy a lot of that conversation. I have nothing to defend . I did nothing wrong. she liked him for a long time. no one oiut there woujld do what I did and take back an animal that someone has had for months. She wants to post our conversations over the internet without permission from me. While leaving out 50% of the what was said. so Again I tried to send her the male back. she refused. instead of shipping it back to a person that SHOULDNT KEEP RETICS. she said she would leave him at the hub..... I was going to to sell him and send her the money. she refused that to. so people what would you do? I will tell what I'm doing nothing.... i am being bashed for being a good person and trying to help her. you don't get refunds because you cant handle what you purchased!!! DO YOURRESEARCH FIRST IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING.... That's is irresponsible on her part . plain and simple. i was going to replace him. until she tried to throw out the refund thing . of course she waited till i had him to do that! Well to dam bad. I'm not dealing with her crap and her shady ways. never had an issue in the past and have sold countless animals on the site. I'm not sure but i believe it is illegal to post a private conversation over the internet. I will go through the proper channels about handling that one for sure.

So bottom line is she bought a perfectly good animal. couldn't handle it after months of saying nothing .... i see an add with her and offer to help. before i can help she does this....

So I'm not replacing the animal. will be happy to ship it back. once she pays for shipping.

she started this. she is out of line and animal was fine .and is fine with some nose rub only. is flighty but not aggressive. its hers to deal with after trying to be shady and force me to take him back. no one does that or would do that. i was . but not anymore. period..

Ok people she is leaving outy a lot of that conversation. I have nothing to defend . I did nothing wrong. she liked him for a long time. no one oiut there woujld do what I did and take back an animal that someone has had for months. She wants to post our conversations over the internet without permission from me. While leaving out 50% of the what was said. so Again I tried to send her the male back. she refused. instead of shipping it back to a person that SHOULDNT KEEP RETICS. she said she would leave him at the hub..... I was going to to sell him and send her the money. she refused that to. so people what would you do? I will tell what I'm doing nothing.... i am being bashed for being a good person and trying to help her. you don't get refunds because you cant handle what you purchased!!! DO YOURRESEARCH FIRST IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING.... That's is irresponsible on her part . plain and simple. i was going to replace him. until she tried to throw out the refund thing . of course she waited till i had him to do that! Well to dam bad. I'm not dealing with her crap and her shady ways. never had an issue in the past and have sold countless animals on the site. I'm not sure but i believe it is illegal to post a private conversation over the internet. I will go through the proper channels about handling that one for sure.