William Gangemi (at repticon)

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

Marta very sorry to hear of your loss.

Generally there is no guarantees on amphibians.

Frogs are fragile creatures and losses can be expected.

You had the opportunity to look over the frogs in person before you purchased. if the frogs looked sick why did you buy them?

Agreed, sadly, frogs do not handle stress/shock well so if they already appeared in poor condition then exposure to extreme temperatures, even briefly, and transportation could have been enough.

Going forward, if you question an animal's health, would recommend not purchasing it then, doing some research, and feel comfortable identifying a healthy specimen.

I think that some great strategies are....

Let the buyer beware.

If it sounds like to good of a deal, then it probably is. Walk away....

Understand that reptile shows are a swap meet.
The healthiest and best animals are not there.

Research the animal you are interested in, and look for reputable breeders.
Email them or call them, If they are too busy to reply, or help you, move on.

All though it was an amphibian and there was extremely cold temperatures we give 48 hour gaurantee on all animals sold at shows as long as it can be provided with pictures. She emailed me the pictures and it was verified to be one of our animals. That being said there was no other dead animal on my table that is a false claim and can not be proven. For anyone buying wild caught amphibians at a show the possibility of there being issues is there especially when bringing a tropical animal out into a freezing cold car. Thanks

If it makes any difference Mr. Gangemi, I would probably buy from you. I have bought snakes (rosy boas) from a breeder in Maryland and had them shipped to California without issue. Knowledge and communication....

This is a different issue, but one that I think needs to be addressed. If wild caught amphibians are so fragile and there is a significant chance of them dying before getting them home, why are you dragging them to shows during the winter months?

Valid question, JCCS. Particularly given the post Billy made almost one year ago, after the original dead BTS complaint, after transporting animals from New Jersey to Atlanta Repticon last January:

Originally Posted by Gangemiw

I offered credit towards another one at the next Atlanta show. With out seeing pictures or anything. Our policy during the winter is once something leaves the venue of the show it’s out of our hands. This is mainly do to the Arctic temperatures that we have been experienceing lately and we don’t feel the need to take responsibility if someone leaves there animal in the car when they run in Walmart or something along those lines. These are tropical animals and shock in the cold could kill them. We have a piece of paper on the table with this being stated .... "

Yet he transports CB and WC "fragile" tropical creatures to shows during the harsh winter months (Hamburg, ATL) from freaking New Jersey, but wants to blame customers when they pass quickly due to the cold weather, even though he transported them in the cold, cold temps from state to state first.

Yes, buyers you absolutely need to do your homework and research both any seller and any animal you may wish to provide a home for. Impulse buys are rarely beneficial to any animal.

And please remember this is an individual who was charged, along with others, with federal illicit wildlife trading.

Originally Posted by Vorlon1

Understand that reptile shows are a swap meet.
The healthiest and best animals are not there.

That's the truth . Hate to say it but as much fun as they can be, the shows are for newbies, a gold mine for the animal flippers and WC dealers and a cesspool for disease. I have a great herp vet and he told me back when I was doing shows that if I want to really do it 'right' , I should not just quarentine new animals I bought at the show, but also quarentine whatever of my own animals I brought back home that didn't sell.

Great advice but if you had a bad show you most likely couldn't fit everything you brought back into your quarentine room. My quarentine room is about 1/4 the size of my herp building and I usually had new animals taking up the space in the quarentine room already.

You're right, reptile shows are only swap meets / yard sales for herps. A few show organizers tried years ago to keep it clean and professional by setting up 'rules' like only captive bred animals being offered (never followed by everyone) and having a vet walking around inspecting things. Nice effort but that was impossible to keep up and enforce so in no time the higher standards they tried for were abandoned.

Another person posted about dangerous winter conditions. When I did shows I wouldn't think of doing them in the crazy winter temps .... vechicle break down or an accident and your animals are gone in no time.

I remember one idiot who drove from Florida to Pa to do a winter show with maxed out credit cards and not enough cash for a motel when he arrived the night before. Slept in his car at about 20 degress in the venue parking lot and lost everything. D'uuuhhhh

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Originally Posted by LauraB

Valid question, JCCS. Particularly given the post Billy made almost one year ago, after the original dead BTS complaint, after transporting animals from New Jersey to Atlanta Repticon last January:

Yet he transports CB and WC "fragile" tropical creatures to shows during the harsh winter months (Hamburg, ATL) from freaking New Jersey, but wants to blame customers when they pass quickly due to the cold weather, even though he transported them in the cold, cold temps from state to state first.

I would assume he does the obvious thing most people with healthy brain function do, and warm up the vehicle before putting tropical animals in it.

Originally Posted by LauraB

Valid question, JCCS. Particularly given the post Billy made almost one year ago, after the original dead BTS complaint, after transporting animals from New Jersey to Atlanta Repticon last January:

Yet he transports CB and WC "fragile" tropical creatures to shows during the harsh winter months (Hamburg, ATL) from freaking New Jersey, but wants to blame customers when they pass quickly due to the cold weather, even though he transported them in the cold, cold temps from state to state first.

Yes, buyers you absolutely need to do your homework and research both any seller and any animal you may wish to provide a home for. Impulse buys are rarely beneficial to any animal.

And please remember this is an individual who was charged, along with others, with federal illicit wildlife trading.

While I am NO fan of flippers, that is not a fair statement. I can transport all of my animals in a pre-heated vehicle and safely monitor temps during travel. I, however, cannot prevent a buyer from putting one of their purchases in their cold vehicle prior to going back into the venue to pick up the rest of their large dry goods purchases.

Originally Posted by JimM

When I did shows I wouldn't think of doing them in the crazy winter temps .... vechicle break down or an accident and your animals are gone in no time.

What you seem to be saying is that there should be no shows held when the seller or venue have extreme temps because of the possibility of vehicle malfunction? No critter purchases from seller's shops in the summer or winter because of the possibility that the car might break down on the way home?
Almost everywhere, there are temperature extremes that need to be compensated for.
Although maybe if you were hauling enough critters you might plan a backup driver and vehicle if there were mechanical issues.
As the Mikes above have said, making sure that the vehicle is of the appropriate temp prior to the critter getting in is the key.

Originally Posted by MartaK

went quick to the car when I left the building and immediately turned on the heater.

Here this buyer did not provide appropriate temps, she admits putting the critter into an unwarmed car.