What would you do?

We use new boxes...no cricket poop!

The screen was covered. There were two 12 hour heat packs. There was planty of newspaper and they were shipped in plactic hinged conatiners, with holes (also new and having many left over from the deli/lunch truck..why waist money well spent).

Could I have done more to prevent the tortoise's illness, I would have. However, I beleive they were sent out healthy and received healthy. Packaged well. What happened next is anyones guess.

There were no phone calls. I have a toll free line 866-543-1220. I have included all the emails (unedited).

Are they my tortoise she is talking about? How do I know she didn't have this conversation for two weeks prior with the other shippers and she didn't get anywhere with them and now it's my turn. She doesn't mention any names in her other posts. I find her story (ies) just that...stories.

Christina,
Good luck in whatever it is you do. I hope this last tortoise (the sicky you couldn't sell) gets better. If you didn't already..take it to see a vet. And thank you for helping me to straigten out any gaps in my policies. This was a lesson learned.

For future customers I have up dated my guarantee. It now reads:
Guarantee:
We guarantee our animals are healthy and alive when they arrive. We can not be responsible for carrier delays or mishandling. We do not guarantee any animals when traveling through areas where the temperatures are below 40 degrees or above 90 degrees. We heat and ice pack when necessary. There is no guarantee on feeder insects. Frozen, pre killed rodents are guaranteed to be cold when they arrive... (this is a joke) Yes, they are dead and will be that way when they arrive! Because of the unique needs of amphibians, there is no guarantee at any time. There is never a guarantee on free items. Exotic Pets-Wholesale is not responsible for shipping and handling fees for the purchase or return of any items.


Retail Customers: (4/04)
If a problem should arise. You will need to return the item or items in question before a refund is issued, less any shipping and handling fees.



Should you run into a problem... please let us know within one hour of receiving your shipment. A credit will be
given on your next invoice or a replacement will be sent with your next order. If we do not hear from you
within one hour we will assume that everything is great and you have had no problems.
No credits will be given after this time.


In addition to the above: (4/04)
Exotic Pets-Wholesale is not responsible for any fees you incur relating too or from the live animals purchased from us such as care, feeding, breeding, shipping or health, other than what has been stated above or other wise stated or agreed upon in writing. We are not responsible for the legality of the animals we sell or any fines, fees or the such from any animal or animals purchased from us.

Basically, notify us as to any problems that arise and check the legality of all animals you intend on purchasing before making the purchase.

www.exoticpets-wholesale.com/companyinfo.html

See what happens when I ASSuME. Now I am thinking the shipping may not have been as bad as I had thought. It sure did not seem from othersd posts by the buyer that the screen was covered, but I guess when rereading all of theose posts that was left to the imagination or ASSumption of the reader. Your latest posts clear that up nicely. Same thing for the cricket poop, once again I ASSuMEd. I am begining to lean toward one side now, not yet having seen anything from the other that amounts to any kind of evidence of the claims made, but still would like to see some evidence provided by the other side, or have the other side drop the complaint.
Best regards,
Glenn B

I personally would not have shipped or been too happy with any reptiles shipped in a NON-INSULATED box of any sorts, especially when shipping a hot temp. species like sulcatas in cold weather.

If it had been me as the seller.....yeah, the customer might not have proven their case or even provided sufficient proof of the animals sickness, but it would've been my fault for shipping them in that manner, so the problem arose and started with me the seller.

In that situation....buy them back even if they're half dead, offer a complete refund or even a partial one at that. In the long run, that one customer can be your best ally or worst enemy regardless if they were wrong or right....they can tell a 100 people that you treated them fairly and would do business with you again or they can tell 1,000 people that you were the absolute worst experience they've ever had.

This is the perfect example, this buyer might not be the most upfront or truthful person in the world...BUT, regardless of what inconsistencies or "excuses" they come up with....still doesnt change the fact that the problem may or may not have been the result of the shipping...and its because of this uncertainty, you as a seller should just give in...take care of it and be done with it.

Alex,

I agree with your assessment of the shipping. It appears to me that it is below my standard of shipment, and I would have simply refunded the $45 before letting it come to this.

However, once a customer has been caught not telling the truth, exaggerating the situation, and may very well have made the resp infection get worse, if not caused it all together, is there not a point at which you say as a seller: "I'm done! I made you an offer that was beyond what I had to do, and it still isn't good enough, so I'm finished!" Isn't there a time when you get to that point?

I'm not saying that this deal was to that point yet, but it was awfully close. Rose didn't see her shipping practices as being substandard (she may not yet, even), so why should she (from her perspective) have considered herself in the wrong here at all? Especially after she could see how things were going with the buyer's end of things!

I think Rose needs to change her shipping practices, but I cannot fault her for how she handled things after the initial contact was made. Not even though I might have handled them differently, as you suggested, Alex.

$22.50 is half of $45.

Does Christina deserve this...in my opinion NO. But since I am a nice person..or maybe feeling generous (today) she will be receiving a MONEY ORDER in the mail.

My original question was concerning the refund for a tortoise that (to this day i'm not sure was or is) sick (or even one that I sent her).

Is it my fault or Christinas? I don't know. Whatever the case...I wouldn't like to be in that situation. I had all intensions of giving her something (possibly) all ($45) back until she THREATENED me. I'm not easily intimidated. My point was just that..to prove to Christina that she doesn't intimidate me and that the customer is not always right.

I enjoyed the conversation and unfortunately..I must end it.

Christina, please don't threaten anybody, it may come back to bite you in the butt. I'm sorry the tortoise is sick. I hope he gets better...I hope you take him to the vet. I also hope you too have learned a lesson by this.

If you should need anything in the future please ask. I'd rather you learn as much as possible about an animal you are going to purchase before the purchase then go through this again. I am a nice person and the emails you received before, during and after the sale are from me and is me. I can be a b*tch when I have to. That is actually a strong point when you a woman in business exspecially a male dominated business.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...threadid=14971

Hello Darin..hope all is well !

In this time and age....we as the sellers need to be the ones who ensure that situations like this do not arise.

They way we go about it is to do everything and anything possible to ensure we did the absolute best job...communication, sale, shipping, call backs, quality, commitment...etc..etc. If we lack in any of these areas, then it is us who left our own butts out in the wind.

If we did all of the above.....what can a buyer really have to rebuttal with ??? I can only think of one thing.....buyers remorse.

This buyer can make the situation seem worse than it really is by "exaggerating" the truth or maybe not even telling the whole truth...but once again, regardless of what may have transpired after she received these sulcatas, the problem didnt start there.

I guess what it all boils down too in my opinion...the seller left herself open to "assault"...one of the best defenses is a even better offense. At this point in time....I have reservations as to whom to believe, if the seller would've done a much better job at protecting her bottoms and if the buyer would've been unhappy from the get go....things would've not turned out this way...it would've been open and shut....sellers shipping techniques leave little to be desired....customer unhappy....refund due....done deal.

But this is clearly not the case here...instead we have...shippers technique leaves little to be desired, customer states she's happy with purchase BUT notices what appears to be a sick animal...so which one is it ?

This is the perfect example, this buyer might not be the most upfront or truthful person in the world...BUT, regardless of what inconsistencies or "excuses" they come up with....still doesnt change the fact that the problem may or may not have been the result of the shipping...and its because of this uncertainty, you as a seller should just give in...take care of it and be done with it.

regardless of what may have transpired after she received these sulcatas, the problem didnt start there.

I think these are admirable ideas for a seller to put forward; it is nice to see someone out there puts customer relations in that high an esteem but, I do see a bit of a problem with this reasoning. How do you know there was a problem with the torts in the first place?

The customer is not always right, and the customer is not always honest! There may have been no problem at all except that the customer possibly has been and is being dishonest. If this is the case, it is not the fault of the seller, no matter how substandard the shipping method.

Sure the shipping box with no insulation is a mistake, and it was one that potentially jeopardized the animals. Sure it is also something for a dishonest person to try to twist to this/her advantage. Yet, one cannot say, beyond a resaonable doubt or even with a preponderance of evidence that, they did get chilled in that box, or that a respiratory infection followed, unless there is some kind of evidence offered up. For instance the vet's report would be a start. Correct me if I am wrong, but the buyer has offered nothing more than her posts to date. If in fact, the buyer is attempting to scam the seller into a refund without returning the animals, then this is not the fault of the seller, even if the seller sent in a non-insulated box.

the seller left herself open to "assault"...

This last quoted sentiment really amazes me. This is like a police officer telling a crime victim: 'Well you left yourself open to being assaulted and mugged because you took a walk at 10PM, and you were not wrapped in body armor, so the police department will not look for the gun toting criminal who shot and robbed you'. Because a victim was vulnerable, even if that vulnerability was caused by the victim, is never a valid excuse for the perpetrator of a crime to have committed the crime. Because someone did something wrong or stupid in the manner by which they shipped a herp is never a valid excuse for someone else to respond with dishonesty, deceit, fraud and trickery. Just by shipping something alone, you would then open yourself to 'assault' so to speak, because no matter how good you ship the buyer could always make a dishonest claim. The seller's actions do not excuse the buyer's actions if the buyer is making a fraudulent claim, even if the seller's actions were what opened the seller up to being defrauded. So the seller asking for a vet's report or a way to contact the vet, is a prudent thing to do before making any refund, and this is so whether or not the tort's were shipped in an insulated box (*which is something the seller really needs to address in all future sales).

Please note all the ifs above, I am not saying that the buyer has made a fraudulent claim, it is merely a discussion of a hypothetical situation.

All the best,
Glenn B
now back to sleep for me - oh these restless nights

Just thought maybe you'd acknowledge my last post.

Guess I was wrong...anyway.

At 10:03am on 4/16/04 (stamped on receipt) I purchased a postal money order and 3 stamps. Your partial refund is on the way (with one of those stamps). Please let me know when it arrives.

As for my shipping methods, yes we have changed a few things.

Thanks for all your help.