Just a follow up on the use of different vitamin supplements.

Every time I find a good debate I always try to follow up on it and try with experience to see the outcome. We had a debate on vitamins enhancing color and we were talking about the one I use as well (Vionate). I am growing up a SHT baby with the use of cricket and reptical/vitamin only, instead of using mealworms and Vionate. This is a PIC of the gecko I am growing up and his color are equally bright as my other prime bloodlines at the same age. I will try to keep you updated on this girl (only about 5 weeks old now) and maybe take her to Daytona to sell her there. She will make someone happy for sure. The PIC was taken outside with no flash.
Regards Alberto & Mary

That's a nice gecko Alberto. Here is an email I received from a lady yesterday:

hi kelli, I have geckos about 2 months old when I noticed some were crawling on their bellies upon closer examination the lower extremities have turned to "Jelly" is this a bone disease? Can I do anything for them, it effects both males and females. I feed all geckoes meal worms with vionate sprinkled on top as supplement.

I didn't want to include her name in the email, but I just want people to be aware that as far as I am concerned, Vionate alone might cause problems like this, at least in the case of growing hatchlings and juveniles.

Use Rep Cal or another pure calcium supplement. IMHO.

great looking gecko Alberto, I wonder about just mixing all the stuff i have together in equal parts, and using it that way

Hi Kelli
I do not know what some people do but I can assure you that I never had something like that happening to me. Did the lady take the geckos to have them examined to find out what the cause was? I know as well that we can overdose geckos with vitamin and I think it is really important to know how we use it and have the correct balance. Kind of knowing how to house the leos on sand, some people do it with no problems and other with a lot of problems. Kelli, I have to add that I never had a better percentage of eggs hatching and the babies been all healthy with no problem to their eye, bone or any of the most common problems we have with wrong caring of breeding females. I really cannot find anything wrong with it in any way as of now. I will keep you informed and I may make a mix of the Vionate and reptical/vitamin in the future.
Alberto

Alberto-

Overdosing on vitamins does not cause metabolic bone disease. That is caused by insufficient calcium supplementation. I am not saying your way is right or wrong, I am just saying that my opinion is that hatchling and juvenile leopard geckos should be supplemented with calcium at every feeding. If your feeder bugs are gutloaded properly there is really no need to offer vitamins but once or twice a month. In reality, if feeders are being gutloaded really well, you do not even need to supplement with vitamins, but I still do a couple times a month, I figure it cannot hurt :-)

And I do know what you mean about some people having problems and some not, with regard to sand etc!

Maybe the heat rock or whatever they chose to use was to hot and it burned them . I had that happen to a hogg island boa and it cooked him good .

Well I use Repti-Cal and couple times a month I mix in the Herptivite Blue label in with the calcium and use this as a supplement. As far as gutloading I also use Collared Greens and Mustard greens and Carrots. The greens being very high in Calcium(need to start growing some myself since my beardies are also raised on this). Last night I was talking to Chris Newsom on the phone and he brought up a valid concern when it comes to Vitamin A. Although we can handle and process it and Beta Carotene it can build up to toxic levels in our little four legged friends. Now when it comes to natural Vitamin A carrots are full of Beta Carotene. I think I will stick to my natural Gutload and Repti-Cal. OH yeah once again Like that Camera Technique there Albert!!!

Overdosing on vitamins does not cause metabolic bone disease. That is caused by insufficient calcium supplementation.

Maybe she did not use enough then?

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I am not saying your way is right or wrong, I am just saying that my opinion is that hatchling and juvenile leopard geckos should be supplemented with calcium at every feeding. If your feeder bugs are gutloaded properly there is really no need to offer vitamins but once or twice a month. In reality, if feeders are being gutloaded really well, you do not even need to supplement with vitamins, but I still do a couple times a month, I figure it cannot hurt :-)

Kelli this is not about me being right or wrong, we all have a different opinion and experience regarding leos and healthy debates are only good to gain more knowledge about them. In my case I had 0 case of bone disease so far in the last 2 years of my breeding using Vionate and that is not about 10 geckos. To add to this, I had a lot of problem using cricket and reptical/vitamin in my first years of breeding but in my opinion is because I did not know what I was doing.

Maybe she did not use enoughf then?

That's possible. I dunno man I just don't feel it's worth the risk, to ME. I wish I felt differently because Vionate is dirt cheap, and it would save me a ton of money every year if I used it rather than the other stuff. I don;t doubt that Alberto has beuatiful geckos whether Vionated or not, and I for one feel there is nothing wrong with using a supplement that makes your geckos look brighter (I'm not saying that's why anyone would use Vionate!). I would use it too if I thought it was as good for my geckos as RepCal/proper gutloading of feeders/herptivite.

Whew, ok, back to my animal work. I want to get finished by this evening so I can go herping.

Originally posted by A&M Gecko
Overdosing on vitamins does not cause metabolic bone disease. That is caused by insufficient calcium supplementation.

Incorrect assumption. Too much phosphorus inhibits the absorption of calcium.