When to cull, need advice please

I have a ball that hatched at the end of July. She would not eat and I let her go for about 6 weeks after shed and tried different feeding methods with no luck. I had to pinky pusk three times and she still would eat on her own. She was still pretty thin so I decided to try a smaller mouse hopper and had to manually feed that. The snake has not struck or killed a rodent yet and will not initiate a feeding response on its own. It has got to the point where I can PK a hopper and begin to push and close the mouth down on it and she will continue to eat it if left alone.

The snake has not entered a second shed yet and recently had its first poop. My question is, at what point do you decide the snake is just not going to thrive and put it down? I don't want give up on her too soon but this has been going on for some time now. I was hoping she would begin to eat PK on her own by now.

Each season, I usually have two or three that have difficulty starting on their own, but I have never had one like this before. I would like hear hear your thoughts on this, especially from those who have had to deal with this situation before.

Originally Posted by Montoya

I have a ball that hatched at the end of July. She would not eat and I let her go for about 6 weeks after shed and tried different feeding methods with no luck. I had to pinky pusk three times and she still would eat on her own. She was still pretty thin so I decided to try a smaller mouse hopper and had to manually feed that. The snake has not struck or killed a rodent yet and will not initiate a feeding response on its own. It has got to the point where I can PK a hopper and begin to push and close the mouth down on it and she will continue to eat it if left alone.

The snake has not entered a second shed yet and recently had its first poop. My question is, at what point do you decide the snake is just not going to thrive and put it down? I don't want give up on her too soon but this has been going on for some time now. I was hoping she would begin to eat PK on her own by now.

Each season, I usually have two or three that have difficulty starting on their own, but I have never had one like this before. I would like hear hear your thoughts on this, especially from those who have had to deal with this situation before.

Since my first attempt at force-feeding (and the resound online thrashing that I received), I have culled any animal that didn't feed within a time-frame set by me after 3 assist feedings. Only if I planned to keep the animal myself did I do a lot more to keep them stable.

Interested in the responses. I am in a similar situation with one.

i agree, maybe 3times at most,but i try everthing,baby asfs, baby mice, baby rats, different tubs,etc

Originally Posted by deborahbroadus

Since my first attempt at force-feeding (and the resound online thrashing that I received), I have culled any animal that didn't feed within a time-frame set by me after 3 assist feedings. Only if I planned to keep the animal myself did I do a lot more to keep them stable.

Thanks Deborah. On the ones you kept, did they work through the issue successfully? She was part of a group that all were intended to be held back.

Originally Posted by bkline

i agree, maybe 3times at most,but i try everthing,baby asfs, baby mice, baby rats, different tubs,etc

I have tried rats, mice, day feeding, night feeding, position in the rack. I don't have access to asf so I haven't tried that. She is alarmed every time a live rodent is placed in. I have left rat pups and mouse fuzzies and also a pre killed hopper in overnight. She eats if you put it in her mouth but won't touch it on her own. I have never failed in starting a ball on food before and it sucks

Originally Posted by Montoya

Thanks Deborah. On the ones you kept, did they work through the issue successfully? She was part of a group that all were intended to be held back.

I have tried rats, mice, day feeding, night feeding, position in the rack. I don't have access to asf so I haven't tried that. She is alarmed every time a live rodent is placed in. I have left rat pups and mouse fuzzies and also a pre killed hopper in overnight. She eats if you put it in her mouth but won't touch it on her own. I have never failed in starting a ball on food before and it sucks

Yes, in fact, one of the original twins that was part of my decision not to force an animal to eat too far beyond their ability to feed on their own, survived and was a great eater.

Originally Posted by Montoya

I have a ball that hatched at the end of July. She would not eat and I let her go for about 6 weeks after shed and tried different feeding methods with no luck. I had to pinky pusk three times and she still would eat on her own. She was still pretty thin so I decided to try a smaller mouse hopper and had to manually feed that. The snake has not struck or killed a rodent yet and will not initiate a feeding response on its own. It has got to the point where I can PK a hopper and begin to push and close the mouth down on it and she will continue to eat it if left alone.

The snake has not entered a second shed yet and recently had its first poop. My question is, at what point do you decide the snake is just not going to thrive and put it down? I don't want give up on her too soon but this has been going on for some time now. I was hoping she would begin to eat PK on her own by now.

Each season, I usually have two or three that have difficulty starting on their own, but I have never had one like this before. I would like hear hear your thoughts on this, especially from those who have had to deal with this situation before.

keep forcing fuzzes till she grows & goes on her own have had a few like that they will take it eventually

I take fuzzies decencent size & force them past their rear most jaw they will eat it then they will grow then they will one day just start eating Ive had this happen twice took over 10 feedings this way but it worked & survied & thrieved

We've had to assist feed several snakes 7-8 times before they started eating on their own, they will eventually take off and do fine.
I have yet to have an assist fed hatchling that needed to be put down.

I do think you waited too long, if any of our hatchlings go 4 weeks after first shed without a feeding response they get assist fed.
Out of 80+ hatchlings this season we had 5 stubborn ones, 2 that took 8 assist feeds, they are doing very well now eating on their own.

I am not opposed to culling, but do not cull slow starters.

We never offer food until after the hatchlings have had their first shed.
Our clutches are kept together in a 6qt. tub with newspaper and a water bowl, and left inside the incubator until they have all shed out.
They are then set up individually in our hatchling rack.
Each one gets a 6qt. tub with newspaper and a water bowl.

We wait 2-3 days after setting them up, and then offer a fresh live rat pink.
(We breed our own rodents, and try to get pinks that are still coated with birthing blood for this feeding.)
The pink is presented first, and then is left in the tub overnight.
Most eat, some don't.

The snakes that don't eat have their tub cleaned and fresh water given, are given a PVC reducer as a hide, and are then left alone for 3-4 days until the next feeding.

The second feeding is also presented first, and then left in the tub overnight.
If the tub already has a hide in it, the pink is left in the hide.

Any tub that still has a pink in it the following morning receives a hide if it does not already have one, and the pink is again presented before being removed.
Those tubs are taken care of, and the animals are left alone for 3-4 days before being offered their third meal.

Third meal is done exactly the same as the first, and second meals.

On the fourth feeding attempt, any animal that has taken three consecutive meals is presented a f/t, or p/k pink.
If they don't take it, they are given a live pink.

Any snake that has not taken a meal at that point, and refuses their fourth meal after having it left in the tub overnight, is assist fed the following morning.
Their next meals are presented, left in the tub overnight, and then assist fed the following morning if they are not eaten.
I have never had an animal need more then three meals assist fed, before they took off on their own.

Once an animal takes it's fifth consecutive meal, it is made available for sale/trade, or moved over to our holdback rack.

I would probably only assist feed an animal about 3-5 times, unless it was going to be a holdback.

After that point, I would try every trick in the book to get them to eat, (braining, mouse pinks/crawlers, brown bag, KFC grease, raised temps...) and would attempt to feed them every 3-4 days.

It would then be their choice to thrive, or expire.