leucistity...little help please

Ok, here's a chance to prove that this site is better than kingsnake. I am trying to figure out the leucistic gene(s) as they apply to pituophis, more specifically to pines. I have posted this question on several of their forums and haven't gotten a straight answer yet. It seems that if someone posts a question on kingsnake such as "what kind of snake should I get?" fifteen people jump toanswer but as soon as a real question pops up, seems like everyone doesn't want to share their know;ledge. So far I have figured out that this is not a single simple recessiv gene like it is rat snakes. So does anyone know how it works. I guess my kingsnake counterparts think I am going to steal their business or something because they are very guarded about heir answers. If anyone has any info on this or knows where I can get the info I would be eternally in their debt. Thanks in advance.

Marshall,
I wish I were a little smarter on this topic, but actually, I'm of no help here. However, I'd love to learn this answer as well since the leucistic genetics are so strange across the boards regarding about every species. Perhaps nobody really understands the genetics, but once we can learn them, they should be able to be applied, generally, to a lot of different species. I suspect that regardless of the species of snake, the basic principles will apply. I'm just anxious to hear what others have to say so that I can hopefully learn right along with you.

David

I am curious to learn about this as well. I was not aware that leucism was not a simple recessive as it is in most other snakes(Texas Rats for instance).
And I don't mean to be offensive, but are you sure you are talking about actual leucism or patternless pines? I have seen patternless pines sometimes erroneously labeled as luecistic, but of course, unless you know the genetics of the animals in question, from what I've seen of both morphs, they are not THAT easy to tell apart(although the "patternless" I've seen tend to be pinkish brownish white color while the "leucistics" tend to be more white or pinkish).

But definitely, hopefully someone more versed in Pituophis morphs could join the discussion and teach a thing or three

Well, here's where I am at so far. My hypothgesis is this: leucisxtic in pines is made up of these traits. First patternless, second hypomelanistic, and third is that one that means no red. I'v had a little help on this but no one seems to be sure. It is difinitely more than just a patternless animal because these are way darker and they tend to have a darkness gradient along the length of their body. Anyway, I intend to breed a leucistic with a normal and if my hypothesis is right I should be able to prove it just by all the crazy morphs that would come out if it is correct.(expecially if i breed the multiple hets together) This should only take 3-5 years so I'll let you all know then.

Why don't we jst come up with a different term for leucistity. Since leucistic already means somethiung that these snakes are not. Any ideas?

It seems sort of far out to me that a snake would have a morph comprised of three seperate traits and no one would be sure about it. It's REALLY hard to concentrate three different homozygous recessive genes all in one animal.
But when you breed the leucy to a normal, you'll get all wild types in the first generation, it's when you breed these together that you'll find out if it's made out of seperate genes.
By the way, the name for 'no red' is axanthic. Anethyristic means basically the same thing, though.
Erin B.

Yes, I understand I will get all normals out of my first croos. I guess I just worded that wrong.

All in all these "leucistic" pines are really nice looking.

By the way, the name for 'no red' is axanthic.

Uuhhhhhhhh...

Axanthic is a condition where xanthin or xanthophores are not present or functional... This effects yellow coloration, not red.

Really I think these words are interchangeable since, as someone once pointed out to me, I'v never heard of a scientific study to prove that snakes even have xanthin. Same thing with tyrosine.

Really I think these words are interchangeable

No, they are not.

I'v never heard of a scientific study to prove that snakes even have xanthin.

... Are you maintaining that reptiles do not produce xanthin... at all... ever? I mean... I could see saying some species didn't or certain captive morphs but... You really need to rethink that if you intended it as a blanket statement applying to all reptiles or even all snakes.

Same thing with tyrosine.

Tyrosinase doesn't exist?

See, cause here I thought it was an enzyme that was used in the synthesis of Melanin, it's non-existance is a surprise to me.