primate haters

...if you feel that you have to file it's teeth, is it really a safe pet?

I do have to ask... what about cats getting claws removed? Or what about dogs needing muzzles just to be taken out to piss? Or what about reptiles that can only be fed using tongs because they will attack you if your hand is in the cage? Just because it CAN be a dangerous animal, DOESN'T mean it WILL be a dangerous animal.

As for this lemur situation.... I'm on the fence. It seems to me that she is taking great physiological care of the animal, even dropping a load of money to give it adequate living space. It seems to me that it may have been a better idea to try and start with a colony, but the fact that she is planning on a colony is good. I think you guys should take notice of the fact that re-introduction to the parents has been failed, and that it was rejected from birth. Other than that, if she was ever to get rid of it, I COMPLETELY disagree with a zoo! It can't go from a home envrionment like that to a display environment. It will cause serious problems with the animal's psycological state. I think a center specifically for primates would be a much better option. At least it would get the attention and care it is used to.

Originally Posted by crazylady1193

I have received many many emails from people who are against owning a primate

Primates are amazingly intelligent. There is no question now, but there used to be, that it is unethical to own people.

Lots of room for thought.

Don't primates have a pecking order in their group? Wouldn't filing the teeth of a lemur leave it defenceless? I hardly see that as humane.

Wouldn't filing the teeth of a lemur leave it defenceless?

Only if it was the only one with filed teeth......

how is the zoo best? they are put on display where children poke and laugh witch scares the crap out of them.

Have you ever been to a zoo? Most primates are kept on islands surrounded by a moat, with ample climbing structures and plenty of others of their species to interact with.

i am not going to just give up something i have wanted for a very long time.

This is the core of the problem - you put your selfish desires about the needs of the animal.

I've wanted a large monitor lizard for a long time, but I don't have the room or time for one and won't for at least 10 years, so I'm not going to get one.

I do have to ask... what about cats getting claws removed?

No ethical vet will declaw a cat. It's even illegal in the UK, and is rightly considered abuse.

Or what about dogs needing muzzles just to be taken out to piss? Or what about reptiles that can only be fed using tongs because they will attack you if your hand is in the cage? Just because it CAN be a dangerous animal, DOESN'T mean it WILL be a dangerous animal.

It's not the danger - I'm fine with (responsible) folks keeping venomous.

It's damaging the animal in order to the ameliorate the danger.

Other than that, if she was ever to get rid of it, I COMPLETELY disagree with a zoo! It can't go from a home envrionment like that to a display environment. It will cause serious problems with the animal's psycological state. I think a center specifically for primates would be a much better option. At least it would get the attention and care it is used to.

Yes, because being pawed over and poked by one human is somehow *less* traumatic than just being looked at from 20 feet away, while having 20 friends of your species to interact with.

Mokele

Breeders remove the babies from the mothers almost immediately, they ALWAYS say the mother rejected the baby. The truth is that primates kept for breeding are normally not psychologically well adjusted either, since THEY were yanked from their mom.

You'll have another baby which you'll ALSO damage by taking it away from the mom(by buying it from a breeder who will yank it away), and then you'll further damage it by trying to make it into a baby, instead of letting them stay with a family and grow up as a monkey, living with it's mother for over a year before it's considered old enough to be away from the mother. Primates are social creatures, and without a family to grow up in, you'll only be able to mock a healthy primate at best.
File it's teeth?? That is better? That's a sign that you know it will not be a pet. I have dogs, and I don't have their teeth filed. I have cats, and their teeth are not filed.
Snakes are not social, and therefor are not being deprived of a social life necasry for healthy mental well-being. We can approximate a living condition for them, and mostly leave them be, and they are "happy" to live, being fed by us. We don't feel a need to pull their teeth out in order to force a behavior that is not natural.

I know that you "love" your lemur, but you should first consider IT and it's needs. Try looking up Jungle Friends monkey sanctuary, and they will tell you why it's not a good idea. I have been there, and the monkeys rescued by them are from labs, or former 'pets' that once they reach maturity(or the teen years), suddenly become unsuitable.

Again.. I don't hate primates, I love them. I love them enough to know that I prefer them to have the chance to be primates, instead of a substitute child. I hope you love them enough to consider that as well.

Declawing cats is one thing I cannot stand. It's a matter of an owner caring too much for their FURNITURE and not their animal, so they have it mutilated instead of training the animal to scratch somewhere else.

Putting muzzles on dogs in order to take them outside to urinate is the LAW, especially if the animal is deemed dangerous. There is a difference here.

Filing down an animal's teeth is akin to declawing a cat in my mind. You shouldn't have to mutilate an animal just to make it more convenient for yourself.

I've wanted a large monitor lizard for a long time, but I don't have the room or time for one and won't for at least 10 years, so I'm not going to get one.

Has she said she doesn't have the room or time?....

Yes, because being pawed over and poked by one human is somehow *less* traumatic than just being looked at from 20 feet away, while having 20 friends of your species to interact with.

If she has a colony, it will be with others of it's own species. If it is in a center specifically for primates, it is also with others of it's own kind. Either way, it ins't getting yelled at and scared by little kids and, in the cases of open enclosures in zoos, getting crap thrown at it by ignorant people. It would be getting good care and food, as well as the social environemtn it needs.

Snakes are not social, and therefor are not being deprived of a social life necasry for healthy mental well-being. We can approximate a living condition for them, and mostly leave them be, and they are "happy" to live, being fed by us.

Ok.. I have to ask... do you speak parseltongue? If not, then I wouldn't be making a statement like that. All pet owners can only assume that they are "happy."

Declawing cats is one thing I cannot stand. It's a matter of an owner caring too much for their FURNITURE and not their animal, so they have it mutilated instead of training the animal to scratch somewhere else.

I agree with this completely. There are plenty of cases that I have seen where the pet is declawed for it's own safety as well as other animal's safety. "How could that be?" some might ask. Well, I have seen some cases where the animal was unable to retract it's claws do to certain brith defects, and constantly getting it stuck in things, leading to injury. There are other cases that I have seen where the animal doesn't realize how badly it is harming others through play. I do strongly disagree with declawing unless it is a case like what I just described.

Putting muzzles on dogs in order to take them outside to urinate is the LAW, especially if the animal is deemed dangerous. There is a difference here.

Yes, but it is a seriously flawed law. Most dogs I have come into contact with that are of a breed deemed "dangerous" are the calmest, nicest dogs I have ever come across. I've even seen quite a few that refused to bite even when being abused. Like I said before, just because the animal CAN be dnagerous, DOESN'T mean it WILL be dangerous.

All in all, it seems to me that the original poster is taking all the steps neccesary to take great physiological care of the animal, and is planning on taking the neccesary action to get it the social care it requires.

As for the insults that have been thrown on the original poster, it is kinda immature. By this I am referring to things like "At least you got your screen name right."

She is not getting a colony. I'm not sure where you gathered that idea from.
She has A single traumatized baby that was taken from it's mother, and is right now NOT getting social training from other lemurs. LATER ON, she is planning on getting another baby lemur, which will also have been pulled from it's mother, whereupon she will no doubt try to treat it as a baby too, and it will also not be socially trained.
Then at some point, I'm sure she'll try to introduce them to each other, and maybe they will get along and be some company to each other. But more likely, she'll end up with two unhappy mentally and socially unsuitable primates who don't know how to interact with other lemurs.
That is not a colony. And all my "suppositions" above are from what she has said.
The "happy" was in quotes, becuase I don't want to say the snake is emotionally happy, but it is content enough that it is not showing any signs of stress or trauma.

All in all, it seems to me that the original poster is taking all the steps neccesary to take great physiological care of the animal, and is planning on taking the neccesary action to get it the social care it requires.

Does it have a colony now? At this instant? No? Then it's not getting the care required. And look at her own history with pets, and posting history here. She's lying in hopes we'll stop making her face her irresponsibility. She has no genuine plans for a colony, especially since it would require 20+ animals and an enclosure larger than many houses. Hell, on this very forum, she's already looking for a new primate species, rather than providing the social stimulation her current primate needs. You should also note that the linked request is from *before* this thread, further supporting the contention that she has no genuine plans to buy other lemurs.