Recent things that are really annoying...

You ask why some people choose to be gay, and I can tell you two reasons that I know of.

The first is that something horrible happened to the person as a child by a member of the opposite sex. I'll let your imagination run on that one. Whatever it was, was so vile that they HATE the opposite sex. When they would have been heterosexual at the start, that can't stand the opposite sex, so they go looking for a relationship with someone of the same sex.

The second is harder to understand. You take a person who has had nothing but poor relationships with members of the opposite sex. Then that person mets a member of the same sex who they REALLY connect with. If that connection is better than anything they have gotten from the opposite sex, they can fall in love with that person. Sex usually follows. You now have a person who wasn't homosexual, but has chosen to become so for love.

I dont hate gay people I hate Homosexuality,

You're entitled to hate anything you want. If you had just said that to start with, I don't think you would have been challenged so adamantly. I won't speak for others, but some of the statements you made, which you falsely identified as facts, caused me to think that you had somehow been brainwashed about the truth surrounding homosexuality.

As far as the fags and lesbians go i dont want my children subjected to that kind of mental illness

they should keep it to their selves and quit telling everyone about their sexual devience

Thats just it they are nothing like everyone else they are sick and should not be condoned around impressonable people

they could send the mesage to impressionable children and far leftests that its o.k. to be gay
However most of the time they just molest them

there is a higher percentage rate in gay males molesting children .

they have to creep around in shadows,Isnt that where monsters belong?

Originally Posted by Karen Hulvey
From your description you are describing pedophiles, not homosexuals. Pedophiles prey on children, male or female. While there may be homosexual people who are also pedophiles, a pedophile is not a homosexual.


Very good point
But a higher percentage of them are

See, I was confused. Reading the above lead me to think you hated homosexuals. Then the added explanation of your childhood lead me to think that you had somehow confused homosexuality with pedophilia on some level. I realize you said that old men waving money at young girls was just as bad, but I don't see you condemning every old man in the world for what a handful of them do...which is what you seem to have done with the homosexuals that approached young people. So I got confused on your opinion.

Thanks for straightening that out.

Originally Posted by ms_terese

Thanks for straightening that out.

LOL - Now i'm confused...but I'm thinking that's the point.

Deleted

Originally Posted by A_Kendergirl

You ask why some people choose to be gay, and I can tell you two reasons that I know of.

The first is that something horrible happened to the person as a child by a member of the opposite sex. I'll let your imagination run on that one. Whatever it was, was so vile that they HATE the opposite sex. When they would have been heterosexual at the start, that can't stand the opposite sex, so they go looking for a relationship with someone of the same sex.

The second is harder to understand. You take a person who has had nothing but poor relationships with members of the opposite sex. Then that person mets a member of the same sex who they REALLY connect with. If that connection is better than anything they have gotten from the opposite sex, they can fall in love with that person. Sex usually follows. You now have a person who wasn't homosexual, but has chosen to become so for love.

I have a 3rd option for you.

In some cases it is NOT A CHOICE!!!

In all honesty I would prefer to be straight. It would be much easier road to travel in life. But I am not and I have accepted that fact. Took 19 years but here I am. I am simply happy to be here and plan on making the best hand I can with the cards I was dealt.




Dennis, I don't want to or need to change your opinions. You are entitled to think what you want. I learned long ago that the chances of changing a persons opinions are slim to none. What pissed me off was your comment about kids. You associated pedophilia with homosexuality like they were linked hand in hand. They are entirely 2 separate issues. Do they sometimes mix, yes, but then again so do heterosexuals and pedophiles. It's a sad truth but it happens.

You ask why I don't change? Let me tell you.

I don't want to. Why should I deny myself a chance at happiness? Am I not entitled to the same rights as everyone else? I struggled with who I was for 19 years and I am at the point I live by one code. "To thy own self be true". I am going live life the way I apparently was designed to live it. As a homosexual. When the time comes I will be judged. And that judge will sit in a much higher court than you!!! And by judging my lifestyle you are judging me. Maybe not directly to my face but you are.

I can argue this until the cows home but honestly it will do nothing to change either of our minds on this issue. I see your side and even agree with some things you have said. I just hope you have seen my side of things too. Even if you don't agree with a single thing.

I can tell you one thing though. If I ever met you at a show you would never know how "warped" I was unless I told you. Makes one think about that hand they shook last week at the reptile show!!!

Upon reading this thread, and the numerous UNeducated things that have been said, I was reminded of a course on Human Sexuality that I took a few years ago. SO... I went and dug out the books. I just thought that some of you might find this interesting:

"According to census data, gay men are more educated than straight men, but gay men earn less" (Black et al., 2000)

"Discrimination goes hand in hand with stereotypes. One such stereotype is that gay men are child molesters. As with many stereotypes, this one is false. Research shows that only 2 to 3 percent of those who sexually abuse children are homosexual" (Jenny et al., 1994)

"A study of gay men (all of whom were uninfected with HIV) indicated that those who concealed their identitiy had a significantly higher incidence of cancer and infectious diseases than those who did not conceal their identity" (Cole et al., 1996)

"These attitudes [homophobia] were formed as we grew up, influenced by our parents, our peers, and the media. Parents must consider the messages they convey to their children about homosexuals." (Hyde, 2003)

"What is striking about all the research on gay and lesbian relationships is how similar they are--in their satisfactions, loves, joys, and conflicts--to heterosexual relationships" (Peplau et al., 1996)

"It must be considered that the evidence does not support the notion that the homosexual is "sick", mentally ill, or poorly adjusted. This position has received official professional recognition by the American Psychiatric Association. In 1973, The APA voted to remove homosexuality from the listing of mental disorders; thus it is no longer considered a psychiatric disorder." (Gonsiorek, 1996)

"Research indicates that children who grow up with a homosexual parent are not themselves likely to become gay. In this sense, then, homosexuality is not "learned" from parents." (Bailey et al., 1995; Golombok & Tasker, 1996; Patterson, 1992)

"The idea--proposed by learning theory--that homosexuality might result from a boy or girl being seduced by an older member of his or her own gender (an early positive homosexual experience) also was not supported." (Bell, et. al., 1981)

So Dennis, here's some real FACT for you. The FACT is that homosexual men and women exist. The FACT is that they are a part of our society. The FACT is that when your children grow up, they will be living in our society, accompanied by "fags and lesbians" as you so eloquently put it. The FACT is that the better understanding they have of the world around them, the better off they are at adapting and cohabiting in our society.

Now, here's where my opinion comes in: It is YOUR duty as a father to instill in your children the values and understandings that they will need to best survive in the world beyond your front door. You may not like what's out there, but there's little you can do to change it.

(sorry 'bout all the quotes... this always happens when classes start. )

Originally Posted by Dennis1

IT MOST DEFINITELY IS WRONG!!!

This person (inadvertently) brings to us an interesting question:

The law sees two different kinds of wrongs: mala in se and mala prohibitum. Mala prohibitum is a wrong merely because it is said to be wrong, for example running a red light at 4AM when there is no one but you (and the waiting cop) around. While the traffic rules are generated for good purpose, at that particular moment there is no particular moral quality violated in running the light (but you will nonetheless get a ticket if caught).

Mala in se, on the other hand, are wrongs which are inherently evil. Murder, for instance, homicides unrelieved by affirmative defenses such as self defense, defense of country or home or family, etc.

I personally fail to see how homosexuality is mala in se (see the above quote by Dennis). It does no harm to those involved or to others; on the contrary, it allows them to be happier and more productive when they can live their own lives with the people they love.

In addition, a second point is that many people have latent feelings of homosexuality which are never, for one reason or another, expressed. Ordinary folks usually take a 'live and let live' attitude regarding the whole subject; those who take their time to make a big issue over the subject may, despite vehement denials, have latent issues they are struggling with and attempt to use a public forum to help themselves resolve these issues.

I'm not saying that is necessarily the case here, but it is something to ponder...

As far as animals being gay I would bet no one on this forum wants a gay snake if it doesn't breed then people usually just get rid of it!

Not EVERYONE breeds snakes....in fact, I would think there are a lot more people out there who just have snakes as pets. If the person only owns one snake....they would never even know it was homosexual....and they would love their pet the same as any other pet. It goes back to one of my first questions....if your kids, or your best friend, suddenly announced they were gay, would you forget all of the things you loved about that person and turn your back on them? Finding out that a person is gay doesn't change ANYTHING about that person, they are still the same person that you have loved or been friends with or whatever. You don't "lose" friends to being gay, you abandon them hen they tell you something that you don't like.

Unlike Homosexuals who then cry about it,If you dont want to get picked on then stay in the closet Or fix what is broke
BTW Deviance = to stray from the norm

Stray from the norm? Who is to really say what "normal" is? To some, sexually abnormal is anything except the "missionary position", anything else is "deviant". To some, oral sex is "deviant". It is all in the eyes of who is judging, and many of those judging others are in no place to be judging anyone.

Stay in the closet?? Fix what is BROKE??? I can't believe you actually said that.....I respect your right to an opinion, but I never expected anything quite that neanderthal as well as hurtful.....you certainly don't have to agree with what everyone does, but it's ignorant, outdated thoughts like those voiced that lead to things like violence and hate crimes.

I'm a Homosapien I have no other title that segregates me from others

Exactly. We are ALL human, and deserve to be treated as such.

And Mike.....you have proven yourself to be a heck of a good guy, who is intelligent, thoughtful, and a true asset to the Fauna community. If anyone would ever turn their back on you just because of what you have said here....it is truly their loss, not yours.

I've spoken to Mike through pm's and via the phone once. He is one hell of a guy. Now knowing that he is homosexual does not make him any less of a man or person to me either. If anything it makes him moreso because he has the courage to be open about his lifestyle.

You say you are open minded about this but every word you type out blatantly comes across as spiteful bigotry. There is nothing wrong with these people and nothing is "broken" with them. You condemn them for the way their life has played out because it doesn't follow your warped set of standards. I implore you not to instill these beliefs in your children as I am certain that when they become the future they will be in a world that is even more accepting of homosexuals and they themselves will then be the outcasts of society.

Originally Posted by Rebel Dragons

I have a 3rd option for you.

In some cases it is NOT A CHOICE!!!

Which is what I have been saying all along. You had mentioned that some people choose to live an alternate lifestyle - just not yourself. He asked why, so I gave him some possible answers.

I am friends with 4 lesbians - and know dozens on a less personal basis through them. My best friend is also Bisexual. Not one of my lesbian friends choose to be so. They all would have preferred that they grew up not being different. One of them grew up and a very religious home and had many of the same struggles with herself as you did.

The only one I know that choose an alternate lifestyle is my best friend. And she choose it at because of the first reason I gave. She has now found a man she loves, and they are getting married in a month. She was never really a lesbian - but circumstances in her life made it appealing.