Red Belly Texas Indigos?

Has anyone been to, or done business with, Captive Born Reptiles in Columbus, Ohio (Terry Wilkins). They are advertising hatchling (06) redbelly Texas Indigos for $750.00. Does anyone have info on store upkeep, animal health, business practises, etc.

I would be especially interested to hear from anyone who has seen and/or purchased a Texas Indigo from them.

Thank You,

John D.

I contacted them about getting one of them and they were pretty prompt to reply. Then I asked them to email me a head shot of one yesterday morning but have not heard anything back. Granted a photo takes a bit longer than an email. With so much red, they look a great deal like couperi. So I would have to get a photo and approval from DNR prior to bringing one in to Georgia. Indigos are something I would really not want to have a misunderstanding on here. I am rpetty sure in Georgia that they bury you alive in a Gopher Tortoise burrow for couperi violations

Here is a link to a 2005 BOI thread regaring CBR.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...+Born+Reptiles

I have started a second thread here.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...887#post418887

I have not been satisfied with their pic responses either. After seeing their ad on KS, i looked at their website. The site said they were sold out of all drys. Their website had no recent photos of hatchlings. I emailed them and asked about the discrepancy, and they replied that their site needed updating.

I emailed them again asking about pics. They referred me to thier web site and the KS photo gallery. I again looked at thier website - now the snake page wasn't working. I looked for their photos on KS but couldn't find any since they hadn't told me their user name.

So I emailed again. Now I got a link to the KS pics. The link took me to the same photos as on their website, none of which are of 06 hatchlings. I checked their website again later. Now it was working, but it still hadn't been updated.

The pic of the "Super Red" Texan does indeed look an awful lot like an Eastern. I would very much like to see those supralabials upclose myself.

There's an old adage, "If it sounds to good to be true..."

Your second link comes back to this thread. Here is the correct link to your new boi thread
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=84974

I have heard both negative and positive things regarding Terry's shop and have asked my dad, who resides in Columbus, to look into this for me. I do not believe Terry keeps his Drymarchon spp.at the shop and the adults and offspring I have seen photos of all appear to have great mass and size.
I contacted Terry's shop last year, when he offered the red D. m erebennus, as I too was skeptical regarding that much red coloration on a D. m erebennus, unfortunately, I was only able to speak with what sounded to be a young shop employee and when I asked about the red coloration, I was told that D. m erebennus harbor much greater red coloration then D. couperi. Since I have only seen a dozen or so wild D. m erebennus, I asked Dr. G. and a few other long term Texas residents their thoughts and found that over the years, a few of them have seen D. m erebennus harboring that much and one indicated he has seen a specimen or two which harbored even more red coloration.
On a good note, those I have spoken with that obtained Drymarchon spp. from Terry last year, with the exception of one, appear to have acquired robust animals that fed well upon arrival.
I have asked Terry for some good head shots of both the adult and offspring available and will be looking at the ocular scales, as more can be told from such then the labials. However, it is important to note that scale count and alignment are to act as a general guide and not a hard and fast rule in the identification process…

Best regards,

Jeff

How could we tell for sure?

...then the third from last supralabial will meet the scale above it. An Eastern will have the third from last labial pinched-out by the two adjacent labials. At least that's what Conant says. I'm not sure about the oculars - Jeff seems to know a lot more about scalation than me.

BTW which is it - Texas, Texan, or Texican?

Regards,

John D

John,
That form of identifacation will suffice for natural, normal specimens. But {IF} this is a cross between the two species, we do not know what that would do to scalation. What I'm saying is that we don not know what kind of scalation a cross breed would have. Also, I don't want to accuse this guy of anything like that. He might be a good guy. I don't know.

I have heard rumors that many years ago, some ranchers in south Texas released some couperi on there land, for some reason. If this is true, then it might explain a population of red bellied erebenus. I think some field work might be in order. And it would be good if someone could befriend this guy, and find out what they can.
T.

A light goes on in my brain!
Of course, you are absolutely correct, there's no telling what a crossbreed might show. Probably the only way to really resolve that sort of thing would be DNA.

There are some pics on the BOI thread that you and Jeff should look at. Seems there are allegations of deception regarding a boa purchase.

I'm beginning to re-think this. For example, what would the Feds/State think of crossing state lines with a x-breed Indigo? I spoke with the TDEC F&W guy here in TN awhile back and they are very serious about eforcement when it comes to couperi.

Regards,

John D.

Who knows what the states or feds would think. I'm sure it would be a real mess until they got it all sorted out, and someone would have to suffer all kinds of court crap. The trick would be proving one way or another what you had. And that would be tricky. Then it would ultimatly be up to a judge somewhere. Meanwhile all your confiscated animals would be dead or dying because they wouldn't have the facility or knowledge to care for them. I think it would all come down to DNA until some kind of outward physical trait was found to be present only in the hybrid of the two. Then it would be easy. But The real drawback is the fact that the captive gene pool for both species is so shallow, and muddy now, that a cross breed would just destroy it completely, and in a few years we wouldn't be able to find a good specimen of anything but a hybrid.

As far as deception, and boas,...There is always deception. And the morphs, mutts and hybrids are comming now like nobody's buisness. And it's only going to get worse, unless we find a way to put a stop to it.
T.