Ben Siegel Troubles

Originally Posted by rosebud945

This is why I asked about the store. He is not allowed to have any reptiles in his possession, so what does that mean for the store? I don't think it is as simple as the condition of the store. I am not judging, just curious about what Florida will do regarding the store now that they have charged him.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/br...105-story.html

Where are you seeing that? A "no animals" clause generally comes with a conviction, not an arrest -- and frankly one is not likely to be issued in a single instance of clinical insanity. I don't know exactly how Ben's disassociative episodes manifest, but it's entirely possible he didn't realize he was handling a live animal instead of any other object at hand. The rules of reality often cease to exist in really bad disassociations, and I suspect at the moment this happened, he had no comprehension of what he was doing to a living creature. "No animals" clauses tend to come into play with a long history of abuse or neglect, not a situation like this.

How exactly his business is structured I don't know, but Amir has been functionally, if not legally, a co-owner for some time and has taken over, along with Ben's staff, during periods when Ben was not sane enough to run the store.

Originally Posted by amcroyals

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You are ENTIRELY out of line. Severe mental illness, especially disassociative disorders, can cause people to act in ways they regret and are ashamed of when sane, and the ability to distinguish right from wrong is nonexistant. A single instance during a disassociative episode does NOT make an individual cruel. Very sick and in need of help, yes, but not fundamentally evil.

I dunno..... I have some mental issues myself hell I think we all do this day and age, but I would never ever hurt an animal. I understand not all mental illness is the same. So why was he allowed near animals if he would go into other worlds in his head ? Clearly he can't take care of himself so why are the animals knowingly at risk ? I don't know .... I'm not knocking the man but if he is as sick as it's being made out to be then he is a danger to society and needs to be locked away. If he can do this to his employees and a helpless animal what is he gonna do to a newborn baby when he goes into Siegel world ?

Originally Posted by scosta56

I dunno..... I have some mental issues myself hell I think we all do this day and age, but I would never ever hurt an animal. I understand not all mental illness is the same. So why was he allowed near animals if he would go into other worlds in his head ? Clearly he can't take care of himself so why are the animals knowingly at risk ? I don't know .... I'm not knocking the man but if he is as sick as it's being made out to be then he is a danger to society and needs to be locked away. If he can do this to his employees and a helpless animal what is he gonna do to a newborn baby when he goes into Siegel world ?

Clearly, from your post you do have something wrong but I assure you it's not the mental issues most people are speaking of here. It's true this day in age many folks are self or incorrectly diagnosed but that also isn't the same & cant be compared to the dealing & suffering from what others with real disorders & there families live with. I'm not a big fan of sugar coating anything myself but some of your questions/comments in that last post of yours are not only disrespectful to the people with disorders but everyone who posted previously & explained. I honestly didn't even want to touch or post on this subject here & understanding the frustration from both ends wish everyone, even if you can't fully understand show a little humanity for others & think before posting.

I want to make it clear that I'm not here to defend Ben, his actions, or anyone else for that matter. I really hope anyone who needs the help does get it & in this case hope Ben does if not only for himself but for the reputation of us in the hobby.

Also I seen it written a few post back & know it wasn't meant in a negative & can be rightfully used on some things very similar with these case's but illness or disorder is better associated then disease.

Lol something is wrong with me because I don't share your point of view lol ok. Reality as of right now the news is claiming He is being charged with animal cruelty and battery. He attacked people. You can sugar coat it all you want. Whether he had mental conditions or not. He is a danger to.himself and society. He is attacking people. That is not safe. So yes I do believe he should be put in a facility where doctors can help him get back on his feet. That doesn't make me a bad person because I want him to get real help and not hurt anyone anymore.

One of my closest friends is bipolar and can be quite violent of off meds. That said, he consciously has maintained his meds for his own sake and the sake of others. Ben certainly needs help, but if he has consciously chosen to go off his meds, then he needs to be held accountable in some way. Too many people or animals can be hurt by such a decision.

I really didn't want to join in on this but, reading these post, it appears that everyone has developed their own opinion based on others comments, some in which are not factual. I like Ben personally, I always have and I have had a long-term working relationship with him as both a buyer and a seller.

Fact- Ben does suffer from several medically diagnosed illnesses, when left untreated (not taking proper medication) can cause him to do irrational things. He needs help in a controlled environment. This is his only cure.

Fact- Ben has been arrested several times over the past 3-4 months for Assault, Battery, Drugs etc... They legal system keeps allowing him to post bail, and he ultimately gets out (until his next arrest).

Fact- BSR's has been operating this whole time. His manager Tom runs the store and his long-time friend Amir runs the Auctions. (Ben has not physically participated in store operations for months). The employees don't want him there as he only creates problems when he shows up in the state he is in.

Now to me- This appears to be a person reaching out for help. He doesn't have Stacey like he did back in 2012 to help him get straight and keep the people that were a bad influence to his health away. (Friends & employees that party with him all night on his dime haven't helped the situation). He needs a close friend or family member to take control and force him to receive the care he needs.

Regarding Ben- He is a threat to himself and others right now. (He threatened a good friend of mine recently over something that happened years ago to the point that authorities were notified). He shouldn't be allowed back on the streets nor should he be allowed to be around animals in his present state. Ben needs to be disciplined for his actions (like anyone else whom has committed a crime) and sentenced to a care facility to receive proper treatment for as long as it takes to become well again.

Regarding BSR's- Ben was BSR's- I really only liked doing business with him personally. I knew how he cared for his animals and knew if there was ever an issue, he would stand behind it. Given the condition of the enclosures I have witnessed during his absence and the changes I have seen regarding both customer service and the changes in the quality of the animals being auctioned, there has been a negative impact to his store. (This is my opinion as I have the ability to see things first-hand).

I truly hope Ben does get the proper help he desperately needs as I enjoyed doing business with him over the last 10-years and would like to continue that relationship again one day.

Originally Posted by scosta56

Lol something is wrong with me because I don't share your point of view lol ok.

Nice try, but no.... I agreed with your statement that something must be wrong with you but it wasn't because your on here sharing an opinion like everyone else & myself. I agreed with you because you had the arrogance to compare your "mental issues" to really serious disorders in an attempt to make seem all the same & controllable in all cases or at least they could be you. Then followed up by asking questions that clearly answered, if your read the previous comments by others.

The truth is basically we do share some of the same points of view. No matter the reasoning animal cruelty & battery are what they are & in that sense yes I agree mental conditions or not he should be charged & separated from society.

I apologize for coming on overly aggressive & admit the subject is a tender one for me. The main point I was trying to make was it's deeper then a lot of people know & very hard to understand without dealing with it in one way or another.

I cant speak for everyone on all different types of mental illness but assure some are more people punished with the thoughts of having to live with the actions of things they couldn't even imagine doing, the constantly worry that even if they don't mess up with there meds it might still happen one day, fighting the hate for themselves & idea that they are just evil & deserve it, being embarrassed for feeling at times that going to prison forever would be a dream come true because you wouldn't have to face it anymore or worry that you cant trust you especially the one's you love.

"He needs a close friend or family member to take control and force him to receive the care he needs."

I agree. I wish well for him.

" Severe mental illness, especially disassociative disorders, can cause people to act in ways they regret and are ashamed of when sane, and the ability to distinguish right from wrong is nonexistant. A single instance during a disassociative episode does NOT make an individual cruel. Very sick and in need of help, yes, but not fundamentally evil."

In a true disocciative disorder the individual doesn't remember what happened. They dissociate. Once the episode is over they have no memory of it. In psychotic or manic episodes (often with bipolar, Intermittent Explosive Disorder etc, they are aware of their behaviors and are often remorseful for their actions and feel powerless to control these episodes).

Medication is difficult with treating mood disorders due to many reasons. When an individual is Manic, they feel great, (often grandiose) and don't want to take meds, when they are depressed ( the other side of bipolar), they lack motivation, and refuse meds. the stigma attached to medications is also a deterrent, as well as the numerous side effects associated with certain medications.

As mentioned above, the key to therapeutic change is the individual's recognizing the need to change and the willingness to accept this. If someone does not think something is wrong, or they aren't willing to participate in the process of therapy, it is a much more strenuous process.

My last thought is this. I do not know Ben personally. I do know that the justice system does not help with mental health. I don't have the statistic at the moment (I can post later if requested) but a high percentage of incarcerated adults suffer from mental health diagnoses. If Ben could be ordered treatment, such as a brief stay in a hospital to stablize on medication, and a court order to comply with therapy, that would be a great service to him.

I also want to add that mental health diagnoses and symptoms can help explain behaviors, but they should not excuse behaviors. Clients and families I work with are aware of this distinction and our therapy involves building in each client the understanding of right and wrong, acceptable and unacceptable social behaviors, and helping them overcome their adverse symptoms so they can function.
Ben can and should still be held accountable for his behaviors, but treatment should be ordered.

Thanks