Warning Points System Mod

Originally Posted by Griz

Bah....

Rich already has all of the information he needs to be exclusive. Nothing like rewarding those who have already proven themselves incompetent.

In your opinion he does and I am sure in others' they would disagree. Now you see the damned if he does damned if he doesn't position he is always in.

So what you are saying is that you are not giving those members a chance to prove themselves with this same test of time? Why not?

Sorry if that impression was given, as it was not what I intended. The standard chosen was one of $ spent on membership, and/or equivelent appointment level using other criteria. I agree that appointment as a forum mod did require an evaluation by you that is not altogether foreign to how you would entrust ding enforcement criteria. If anything, my complaint regarding criteria is that it omitted all existing peer-review input, much of which has withstood the test-of-time. I was also enhancing your evaluation that you and the super-mods existed solely by appointment to a position of power. I meant to indicate that you also had attained a position of respect, gained over time. The peer review has been there for you and them, to include the likelihood that if any of your super-mods had shown themselves to be detrimantal to the site, you would have let them ease-on-out some time ago.

I am not for denying anyone a chance to prove themselves. At the same time, if they have not earned my prior respect, they aren't endowed with such because they spent $100. That does not mean that I intend to disrespect them. As I mentioned in past posts, as this thing gets tested, if you need to modify it, I would suggest that you reach to the existing Karma system, such that maybe you choose those with the top 20-30-40 etc totals as being a good place to recruit dingers, if not make it available as a privilege to all there. I am not lobbying for the job, and you may omit me. It has its flaws, but more than any other existing criteria within the site, it indicates a commitment to the site, experience, and peer approval. It gives further value to the concept of earning peer approval here, which is achieved more quickly by being civil vs, uncivil, IMMHO.

My best guess is that this current system will prove adequate as is, but just not the best foundation to build this on.

However:

All persons capable of being in a moderator capacity are "on duty" at all times when they are logged in here. That has to be how they are treated, which realistically, if you treat them belligerently, then that is still a violation of the rules. The difference of a single point in the warning total is not all that substantial of a complaint issue.

It is not just one point that is at issue here. It is whether the standard is antagonism vs. being overly abusive. I know that it will end up being a judgement call.

Originally Posted by DThomas

In your opinion he does and I am sure in others' they would disagree. Now you see the damned if he does damned if he doesn't position he is always in.

I agree. Rich's job is a thankless one. There is no argeuing that. But, it's also a job that he chooses to do every day. And as such, comes a certain amount of responsibility which includes making intelligent choices that are not detrimental to the site. The main problem here is that a lot of us want to believe he still cares about the site because we still do. Although that list is starting to become smaller everyday. If the owner does not care then why should we? Maybe that's the overall problem.

Griz

Originally Posted by Griz

$
Heck Rich, I would rather donate $100 and have people like Mike Greathouse, Shrap etc, people who have EARNED not PAID for the right help bring about civility. They, in the eyes of most here, have EARNED this right through their level headedness, their integrity, their sincere desire to be correctly dogmatic. Pretty pathetic when someone can PAY for a right that they never EARNED, isn't it?

Griz

I agree. That would be a much better plan.

The funny thing is, neither of these respected individuals has opted to post in this thread.

As vocal as Mike Greathouse was in WWW2, I would have thought that we would see him in this thread.

He wasn't banned or anything for speaking his mind, was he Webslave?

Originally Posted by Griz

I agree. Rich's job is a thankless one. There is no argeuing that. But, it's also a job that he chooses to do every day. And as such, comes a certain amount of responsibility which includes making intelligent choices that are not detrimental to the site. The main problem here is that a lot of us want to believe he still cares about the site because we still do. Although that list is starting to become smaller everyday. If the owner does not care then why should we? Maybe that's the overall problem.

Griz

So now I am being blasted because after years of taking abuse on the chin from LOTS of people on this site, I am finally getting tired of it. Yeah, I'll bet this is easy to do and all of you could do it handily.

Sorry, but no, I am not a saint, and I am not superman. I don't know how anyone got that impression. This site would be better and the job much easier if everyone here would just act like responsible, rational, mature, and professional human beings. As the past proof has shown, that just is not possible for everyone here. Most have agendas that are ad odds to the goals of this site, and it is pretty obvious that their only reason for being here is to cause as much conflict as possible. And THAT is MY fault? My fault that I am just tired of it and offloading some of the workload? And you are complaining because I am not making the effort to try to get SAINTS put into those positions?

Sorry, but nothing this site has to offer me is worth the aggravation of doing it with the full load on my shoulders. And I WILL not ask the few site mods to shoulder that burden alone either. I threw in the towel rather recently, but felt THIS concession to the expressed desire to modify some of the more negative aspects here would help in that regards. If you all MAKE it fail, basically a self fulfilling prophecy, then it will be back to where it was, with basically no one at the helm.

And no, I really don't care which way it goes. I hope this will work, but I'm not holding my breath that some members here won't make a mountain out of a molehill about it in order to force it to fail. That would not surprise me in the least. Matter of fact, it would be par for the course we have here.

So if I am going to get bashed for doing something or not doing something, it doesn't make any sense for me to continue trying to do something. Is that a difficult concept to grasp?

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer

I agree. That would be a much better plan.

The funny thing is, neither of these respected individuals has opted to post in this thread.

As vocal as Mike Greathouse was in WWW2, I would have thought that we would see him in this thread.

He wasn't banned or anything for speaking his mind, was he Webslave?

I'm sure you know how to check on things like that or contact Mike directly.

Originally Posted by Griz

I agree. Rich's job is a thankless one. There is no argeuing that. But, it's also a job that he chooses to do every day. And as such, comes a certain amount of responsibility which includes making intelligent choices that are not detrimental to the site. The main problem here is that a lot of us want to believe he still cares about the site because we still do. Although that list is starting to become smaller everyday. If the owner does not care then why should we? Maybe that's the overall problem.

Griz

Bob, we all help perpetuate the problem by asking Rich to continue running this sight.

I'm sure that if he chooses to do so, Rich could just pull the plug here and we would all be talking on other sights about the greatest place the web had to offer.

I prefer a little cool down time to take stick in what is really important here. Our love for our hobby/business and or pleasure.

With the exception of those scammed on the BOI, none of us are victims here, just willing participants.

If you all MAKE it fail, basically a self fulfilling prophecy, then it will be back to where it was, with basically no one at the helm.

We don't want it to fail ..... at least most of us anyway. We just all have varying opinions about how to best make it succeed. That is to be expected, but there does seem to be areas of consensus among those that have cared to post here that the current plan is more flawed at the outset than need be. We hope that it does not contribute to an avoidable demise.

Referring back to history, but this nation's first attempt to create a mechanism by which to unite and solve problems to serve the common good, the Articles of Confederation, was a failure. Thank God they didn't give up trying, kept the same goal, and improved upon the means to achieve it. With much debate.

In the meantime, I am also content enough with the current document to see how things play out.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

So now I am being blasted because after years of taking abuse on the chin from LOTS of people on this site, I am finally getting tired of it. Yeah, I'll bet this is easy to do and all of you could do it handily.

Nope, but I would know when to quit. Rich, do you honestly believe that I, or Jim, or Wes, or Mike G, or??? would have even taken the time to throw out suggestions, to analyze current proposals if we did not care? That, at the very least, should show you who truly cares about this site and who does not.

You and I have exchanged our share of PM's and you know I have a lot of respect for what you do and for what you have gone through. I also fully know that the benefits of running this site are probably dwarfed by the headaches received. But, if you don't want to hear the opinions of others then maybe it's you that needs to take a break. When people have something they care about they don't throw the towel in. But they WILL speak up loudly when mistakes are being made.

The walls won't cave in. The ceiling is not tumbling down. And Fauna will live to see another day. But, I had never, prior to yesterday, had to wonder what the motives were of those in power. I now have about 43 people in which to be curious about. Only time will tell.

Griz

Originally Posted by Griz

The walls won't cave in. The ceiling is not tumbling down. And Fauna will live to see another day. But, I had never, prior to yesterday, had to wonder what the motives were of those in power. I now have about 43 people in which to be curious about. Only time will tell.
Griz

I think that number is down to 42.