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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. |
04-10-2012, 09:07 PM
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#131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCCS
Andrew, the timeline of the boa's delivery and the first pictures taken tells me that it was dead when it arrived and had been for a bit. I don't think for a second that it was dead in the box, as Connor suggested, but I do think that it died in the box. Also, using two heat packs when the overnight temps probably didn't drop below 55 or so is extremely dangerous. I've never used more than one heat pack and at those temps probably wouldn't have used any. Adding up both of those factors makes me believe the snake was in fact, DOA.
Chris
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Chris, That possibilty exist but the actions commited by sevarl people who are closely related which were illegal provides me with enough doubt at this point in time to say go fish. Not to you Chris but the criminals. Andrew
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04-10-2012, 09:12 PM
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#132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowAceD
Speculate on the heat pack issue? Yeah, we can, but let me lay it out in simpler terms since people are not looking into it themselves.
These are the temperatures for Tampa Bay the day the package was dropped off at FedEx, with the two heat packs.
These are the temperatures for Chicago the day the package was put on a truck for five and a half hours with two heat packs before being delivered.
This is the FedEx confirmation of delivery and tracker of the packages journey.
There were two heat packs in an insulated box with no holes. That means the heat could not escape. That means while it was in the 80s outside of the box, it was easily in the 90s inside the box, if not higher. While it was easily in the 90s inside the box, it was easily in the 100s in the truck. Get it? Extreme heat + no way for air to escape + a dead animal means rapid decomposition and rapid release of rigor mortis. An animal can reach and lose rigor in a very short amount of time when exposed to extreme heat.
Logic would suggest that the death of the boa occurred either in transit from Tampa Bay or while sitting on the truck with FedEx with rapid deterioration ocurring due to extreme heat. The curling of the mouth backward sort of supports that theory, as does the fact that the bowels nearly exploded out of the animal when Kevin removed it from the packaging.
The black mail attempt aside, Kevin associated with people he should not have, but that does not mean Andrew is not at fault and gets to keep 4K because of it.
The evidence points to the shipping and packaging killing the animal. Until there is evidence to prove otherwise, that is what the general consensus should be.
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Kevin is as much a criminal as the other two. There's still a chance that the boa arrived alive. The difference is my reputation and the reputation of obvious criminals. I'll go with those who are honest versus those who are dishonest. Andrew
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04-10-2012, 09:15 PM
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#133
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So, what you are telling me, Andrew, is your reputation is so robust that it does not matter that you screwed up and probably killed a boa? That your reputation is so pure you can place blame on others and people will follow that blindly? What arrogance. That is absolutely absurd. How can you even think the animal was not DoA? Are you serious? It cooked in the box.
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04-10-2012, 09:16 PM
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#134
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Yes, Andrew
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04-10-2012, 09:19 PM
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#135
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Andrew, I understand that it's a crappy situation, but you need to look at the basics here. With the time of that photograph now known, and the time that the snake was delivered known, there is no way that the snake could have been alive when the snake was delivered and been in that state of decomposition.
The worst that Kevin could have done at this point is been in league with G2G there and tried to blackmail you. Like I said, take that up with criminal charges. In the meantime, you need to refund the guy's cash. Don't let your pride screw you over on this one. Do what you gotta do about the blackmail, but don't become guilty of fraud yourself. Be the bigger man.
Chris
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04-10-2012, 09:20 PM
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#136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Potts
Kevin is as much a criminal as the other two. There's still a chance that the boa arrived alive. The difference is my reputation and the reputation of obvious criminals. I'll go with those who are honest versus those who are dishonest. Andrew
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Those who are dishonest? Lets take this into things I know very well. Electronics. You sold me a faulty piece of gear. I gave you money in this transaction, the piece of gear proved out to be faulty. So now I have no product and no money. Where are you in the right here? I do not see it.
So what did you expect me to do when you are holding onto a few months worth of rent? Say oh my I am glad this nice man sold me products which had the quality of a chinese sweat shop and I even love it so much that after it breaks I will let him keep my money for just doing business with him since hes such a swell guy!
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04-10-2012, 09:20 PM
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#137
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Ok well I am just putting my 2 cents in. not sticking up for either party.
So your saying the heat has no way to escape the box. Yet it can get in the box. If heat can get in then heat can get out. I have shipped things to places in the 80's with heat packs and everything turned out fine. Last night I dropped a package off here in toledo, ohio where it was easily 65-70 degrees and shipped it to california where it was like 80-83 today. Snakes got there and they were actually under 80 degrees yet the outside temp was above 80. Kinda weird how that happens huh. If it is a well insulated box. The temps outside shouldn't matter much. As it is like a cooler. Keeps things cold or keeps things hot. Now it will effect it in a small manner. But not enough to kill it. Plus heat packs only get 84 degrees. So your telling me 80 degree temperatures are going to make an 84 degree heat pack warmer. I think not. Not saying the heat didn't kill the animal. It very well might have. But It is not that hot to make the heat pack heat up.
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04-10-2012, 09:23 PM
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#138
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Andrew - what type of pictures did he attach? Are there any where you can see your address?
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04-10-2012, 09:23 PM
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#139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Potts
Yes, Andrew
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I stand corrected. I'm nothing more than a piece of feces and will always be. I'm scum and all I can hope to be in life is pond scum. In this case I'm not budging one centimeter. Kevin is as guilty as the others, end of discussion. Andrew
PS Like several people have said, take me to court.
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04-10-2012, 09:24 PM
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#140
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yeah i get your point. it is an opinion of yours and probably some others. but it is far from a general consensus. i understand shipping vey well. it is my main source of sales. simply put there was an attempt to extort drew from a partner in this transaction, all credibility flies out the window at that point.
if you think less of me for my opinion so be it, but i run into one of these jokers about every two years. for me there is no putting the blackmail aside. i see no independence of the buyer and his partners.
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