Jeff Gee -Captive Bred wildlife foundation- Bad Businessman

Originally Posted by dberes

I agree with everything Clay has said in his above posts.

Vic,

You say Jeff has a thing for selling "het for nothing" animals, but in 1993 the hypomelanistic gene was still being figured out. Buying hets on any new morph is a risk if the genetics are still being figured out. It generally takes quite a few breedings to get the exact genetics down. Adults to siblings, siblings to siblings, siblings to normals, etc.. I understand your frustration with Jeff for raising his prices on the hypos, but did you two ever verbally agree on the price of $500 for the male that he was going to hold for you over the phone or did you just ask him to hold a male (no price talked about)?

if it is still being figured out than they should not be sold as hets. that is very simple. i have a very aberrant boa, and when i breed her i am not going to sell the babies as hets unless i keep them for a few years and prove them out. it would be dishonest.

Jeff Gee, doesn't make good on anything unless forced to. I too was a victim by buying what he called het's for hypo boas in 1994. he said they were absolutely het's for hypo instead of saying the traits were unknown at the time. Oh yea he was pushing these as het's for hypo alright. I then sent him the money he wanted and told him to send them via UPS next day over night. He proceded to tell me he would not be responsible if anything happened to them if I wanted them shipped that way and I agreed as long as he followed my wishes to the letter and shipped them again "UPS next day over night". Well instead of doing what I asked he dropped them off at a place (store) called package.net paid them and left and the boas were shipped "Via ground service" in 110 degree heat and arrived at my door 10 days later looking like soup I almost had to throw up it smelled so much. Well when I called Jeff, to explain that I wanted a refund because he didn't ship my babies the way I asked he got very angry and told me he was still not responsible for them even though he didn't follow my instructions however he did offer me one regular boa worth about $30.00 to replace the two that I have lost but I would have to send him $60.00 to have it shipped Via Delta Dash. Since then I have heard many similar cases such as mine. I am sorry but I just don't believe Jeff, is a nice guy he just doesn't like loosing and I doubt given the chance will make good on those very expensive het's that have been discussed here. I believe the man in California, who Big Vic, was referring to who had to sue to get his 25,000 back was also offered those F5 hypos it seems nobody wants them or believes they are worth the price.

Jeff Gee, doesn't make good on anything unless forced to. I too was a victim by buying what he called het's for hypo boas in 1994. he said they were absolutely het's for hypo instead of saying the traits were unknown at the time. Oh yea he was pushing these as het's for hypo alright. I then sent him the money he wanted and told him to send them via UPS next day over night. He proceded to tell me he would not be responsible if anything happened to them if I wanted them shipped that way and I agreed as long as he followed my wishes to the letter and shipped them again "UPS next day over night". Well instead of doing what I asked he dropped them off at a place (store) called package.net paid them and left and the boas were shipped "Via ground service" in 110 degree heat and arrived at my door 10 days later looking like soup I almost had to throw up it smelled so much. Well when I called Jeff, to explain that I wanted a refund because he didn't ship my babies the way I asked he got very angry and told me he was still not responsible for them even though he didn't follow my instructions however he did offer me one regular boa worth about $30.00 to replace the two that I have lost but I would have to send him $60.00 to have it shipped Via Delta Dash. Since then I have heard many similar cases such as mine. I am sorry but I just don't believe Jeff, is a nice guy he just doesn't like loosing and I doubt given the chance will make good on those very expensive het's that have been discussed here. I believe the man in California, who Big Vic, was referring to who had to sue to get his 25,000 back was also offered those F5 hypos it seems nobody wants them or believes they are worth the price.

Sorry for the double post

Originally Posted by dberes

I agree with everything Clay has said in his above posts.

Vic,

You say Jeff has a thing for selling "het for nothing" animals, but in 1993 the hypomelanistic gene was still being figured out. Buying hets on any new morph is a risk if the genetics are still being figured out. It generally takes quite a few breedings to get the exact genetics down. Adults to siblings, siblings to siblings, siblings to normals, etc.. I understand your frustration with Jeff for raising his prices on the hypos, but did you two ever verbally agree on the price of $500 for the male that he was going to hold for you over the phone or did you just ask him to hold a male (no price talked about)?

Originally Posted by reagorfu

if it is still being figured out than they should not be sold as hets. that is very simple. i have a very aberrant boa, and when i breed her i am not going to sell the babies as hets unless i keep them for a few years and prove them out. it would be dishonest.

Exactly right Reagorfu.

Why market something that has genetically unknown? We rag on people all the time on the faunna selling BP's as "new and unproven morphs" for ridiculous prices, what makes Mr. Gee exempt from this same marketing ploy in 1994?



No good named breeder would do that, especially with his name on the line for commanding the higher price tag.

And yes, verbally we did agree on the $500.00 price tag for the boas. Otherwise, why for goodness sake would make the trek from NYC to PA for just some het. for Albino Balls that Steve Osborne could have easily shipped me prior? Doesn't make much sense considering. The $500.00 price tag was discussed months in advance, and we keep in touch during the course of a few months leading up to the show.

- Vic

I am really surprised that no one has talked about the email from Jeff to Mike.

"Mike. Glad to hear the mites are gone, as I expected. Again sorry for that. Yes they were born in 2003.
Their father was a Albino from Pete Kahl , their mother was a Leopard Boa from Hans Winner. Both are good friends of mine."

You would think it would have been easy for a friend of Hans to verify the genetics of these Boas. It appears that Mike was able to with one simple email, you would really think a friend would have been able to. He represented them as from known proven animals. I don't know. To me this takes it from a simple case of bad business to something more. Am I over reading into this. As a victim of TSE, I really hate to see this kind of thing happening.

Chris Rouille

Originally Posted by dberes

I agree with everything Clay has said in his above posts.

Vic,

You say Jeff has a thing for selling "het for nothing" animals, but in 1993 the hypomelanistic gene was still being figured out. Buying hets on any new morph is a risk if the genetics are still being figured out. It generally takes quite a few breedings to get the exact genetics down. Adults to siblings, siblings to siblings, siblings to normals, etc.. I understand your frustration with Jeff for raising his prices on the hypos, but did you two ever verbally agree on the price of $500 for the male that he was going to hold for you over the phone or did you just ask him to hold a male (no price talked about)?

Jeff was still selling het for hypos last year at the Tinley show. I thought then and I still think he may have had his time, but excuse me for being frank, he is a joke. How can anyone sell het for hypos as late as 2006.., let alone F5 hypos for 5k (those snakes have been online for at least 3 years now).....unbelievable.

Bob McPhee

Originally Posted by gideongabriel

Jeff was still selling het for hypos last year at the Tinley show. I thought then and I still think he may have had his time, but excuse me for being frank, he is a joke. How can anyone sell het for hypos as late as 2006.., let alone F5 hypos for 5k (those snakes have been online for at least 3 years now).....unbelievable.

Bob McPhee

Indeed Bob. 1994 it was believable. In 2007, it's just pathetic.

Originally Posted by gideongabriel

Jeff was still selling het for hypos last year at the Tinley show. I thought then and I still think he may have had his time, but excuse me for being frank, he is a joke. How can anyone sell het for hypos as late as 2006.., let alone F5 hypos for 5k (those snakes have been online for at least 3 years now).....unbelievable.

Bob McPhee

If he is still selling het for hypos then that definitely isn't good.

Marketing in this industry has changed over the years. Comparing the BP craze of today to the marketing in 1993 when few morphs were around is like comparing movie special effects from then and now. They started off in a few movies and were crappy, but both have evolved overtime. The difference with todays marketing is <b>some</b> seller's try trickier wording for what the animal could possibly be when the honest sellers just sell the animal for what it is.

I agree it wasn't right to raise the price on the hypo that Vic was going to buy that they had already agreed on. Of course Gee can raise the price, but ethically its pretty low and he gets the reputation he is getting now from it and the other things he's done.

On a side note, I did buy a infamous normal Possible Double Het Ghost from one of the biggest boa breeders of today in 1999. He did do his job and explained the situation about the hypo gene not likely be in the boa, but he was still selling them as a possible double het ghost. I bought the boa, because it was a gorgeous animal (I didn't care for the possible genes part).

As for Mr. Gee. I already said i'll be a part of the lynch mob if he doesn't try to make it right...

I don't mean to go too far off topic here but who made the post captured in the attachment. I'd like to remind you that your full name is required in all BOI posts. Which is it and why are there two?