How small is to small?

I think people are just impatient and dont think about the animals welfare as they should sometimes. I feel that anything under 1200g is probably a risk and personally, I don't want to jeopardize the snake. I held back two pastel girls last season who were 1150g and 1200g because I didn't think they had the girth or the weight.

I however have had two girls who were great eaters and gained 1400-1600g in a 18 month period and showed interest, so I bred them. They had the size and both produced clutches for me of 5 and 6 eggs.

I think there are exceptions to what the established standards are regarding size and age, and one must make a good decision with their females. I'm sure some small females breed in the wild, but we can limit the risks of complications by choosing to wait until they are adequate size in captivity.

Originally Posted by David Reid

Breeding a female at 800 grams is just assinine.

Dave

My magic numbers (among other deciding factors) are 18 months old and a 1500 grams minimum PERIOD to breed a female! I feed an appropriate size meal every 5 days to the females I decide to keep and grow up, by 18 months most are at the 2000 gram range, I have very few breeder females that are under 2000 grams. This is just my opinion, and it is what works for me.

Originally Posted by David Reid

Breeding a female at 800 grams is just assinine.

Dave

You would have to tell that to the male balls in Africa!

Joe VerCammen
Age plays a large roll in sexual maturity in nearly every studied species known to man. I don't see how Ball Pythons would be an exception.

Clarence E. Payne III
That's why I posed the question, to see who would, who wouldn't and why. As for the under two year statement, I agree.

David Reid
Why is it asinine?

Craig Montoya
I agree, most people are very impatient and sometimes to the point of jeopardizing the welfare of their animals, however, what risk is there really involved in breeding a female that size? Again, I asked for first hand knowledge of things that happened. Not "My friend knows someone who's friend's aunt's uncle had a ***gram female who got egg bound because he started her to early" or "had a very small clutch and will only ever lay small clutches now." Not that this is what you're providing, I Just want to know if you're saying there is a risk, what proof do you have there is one?

Robert Kite
Some would say that it is in fact asinine to feed an animal every five days that eats an average of once a month in the wild. Again, what proof do you have that breeding a female at the right age but low weight is harmful?

[quote=Joe_S;1191645]Joe VerCammen
Age plays a large roll in sexual maturity in nearly every studied species known to man. I don't see how Ball Pythons would be an exception.
QUOTE]

I guess I'll find out! I have a couple 18month old 1500-1800 gram females breeding now. Only the future will tell if early breeding will affect there futures? As per the Maury Povich show if a 15 year old girl can already have a few children (Not recommended for my daughter) why can't a young ball have viable clutches?

Ah, but who's to decide what's to young, that's my point. At what age are they sexually mature? What age are there actually complications that someone has documented first hand? What weights? Which is worse?

Joe, I'm not sure if you're going to find all the answers that you seek in a single book, but you might want to start with "The Ball Python Manual". Hope that helps.

You won't get first hand on this from me, as I am not crazy enough to attempt to breed at 800g. If you want to ignore all the wisdom that has been passed on by the pioneers in this hobby, then do so.

Female balls reach sexual maturity between 3 and 4 years of age typically, so if you breed younger than that there is a risk, especially if they are small bodied. Numerous cases of eggs having to be aspirated and slugs being layed by under weight and under age females are out there. This past year we were cautioned that desert females had issues laying eggs around 1200g because they are a smaller bodied snake. It was advised to breed them at 1500g and over for the safety of the female. Would you risk your desert girl at 1300G because it came from only one source?

A comparison was made to all other species with age being a factor, there are 10 year olds out there giving birth, maybe even younger these days. Although they have matured enough to get pregnant, there are numerous risks to the child and the baby from a very young pregnancy.

I don't know if your just looking for justification to breed small snakes if no one can point out first hand any problems here or not. I would advise you against it and hope you can see the logic to not do it if you are. You can probably get with some importers and ask them their thoughts as they deal with it more frequently.

i here every one saying they get there females up to 1500 grams in 18 monthshow is this possible unless you are feeding more than once a week my females eat every 6 days med rat and takes longer than that.

Originally Posted by Joe_S

Robert Kite
Some would say that it is in fact asinine to feed an animal every five days that eats an average of once a month in the wild. Again, what proof do you have that breeding a female at the right age but low weight is harmful?

To each their own my friend. My previous statement was stated as FACT as it pertains to ME, and I know MY animals quite well. As for proof, I have none, but then again, neither do you have any proof that it ISN'T harmful, as I think each INDIVIDUAL animal is different. With that said, if you feel it safe enough to breed a female at 800 grams, who am I to stop you? But as for ME and MY animals, I will wait untill my girls are at an age and weight as stated previously. Again, this is just MY opinion, and it is what works for ME.