is this a desparate business in need of funds?

I can't believe people are still complining about what MKR is selling their snakes for.... I mean, is everyone that is against it saying that it isn't their RIGHT to sell them for the price he wants? Are you saying he should keep the price inflated so you can get your piece of the pie? I have an idea... How about you hold onto yours until all of HIS are gone and then once all the bargain basement prices are gone, BAM, you can sell them for 3000 again... it really isnt that hard. There are ALOT of people that want morphs like that and 800 is even alot for them, so really... who cares... he can sell them for 100 bucks if he wants.. And threatening bodilly harm to someone over a stupid snake... thats really mature... Kind of makes me sick that there are so many petty people involved in reptiles. Ill be sure not to do busines with someone that is willing to cause harm to someone over somthing as immature as this entire ordeal.

I've seen mention of people getting into the breeding business not knowing anything about operating a business to mention of MKR needing to be careful because they're receiving threats?

I am not a breeder, so take my words for what they are worth; as a consumer, they're worth a pretty penny, though.

These are co-dom morphs, and of course their investment isn't going to last as long as the recessive traits that first led to the ball python morph business. That doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out. Side note: comparing these to piebalds is comparing apples and oranges, too, so there's no point in using that as an example for those of you that are.

For those in the business a long time, investing in these co-dom morphs, maybe it's you who has no clue how to operate a business. These co-dom morphs should have never seen the high prices they did to begin with BECAUSE they are co-dom. I can see the the first year, but after that? Nope. The ball python market has dramatically changed, because now the hot morphs are easier to breed, shifting to the males being more valuable than the females. It obviously doesn't take X number of high dollar females to produce now, so it IS cheaper to produce them, and the selling price should definitely reflect that, why is that so hard to see???? If you didn't see this coming with the new co-dom traits, I reiterate my words "maybe it's you who has no clue how to operate a business."

Talk about MKR being greedy? Get real.. the greediness comes in trying to market these new morphs the same as the recessive trait morphs were marketed.

As for the mention of the threats to MKR and suggesting they shouldn't be at Daytona, that can be a big blow to the market itself. Big breeder or not, working at it for 20 years or not, that will definitely be a factor in determining where I send people to buy morphs from now on. I have always sent folks to the old-timers, but you can be damn sure I will be reading more from now on. After seeing these comments, MKR is who will be getting my vote and referrals, not the breeders who are blaming MKR for their poor planning and views of a market that should have been viewed differently from the first realization of these genetics.

MKR didn't do the damage, the choice to attack them will be their own downfalls. I have never sent anyone to MKR before, but you can be damn sure I will now.

Denise,

while I can't say that I agree in threatening them with any kind of bodily harm, I still have to say that I understand (and feel) the frustration of what MKR did. No one that has any kind of experience in this business was "expecting to", or even trying to market them in the same way as the recessive morhs, as you said. We all realize that the market on codoms will gradually decline. Eventually. No one expected to sell babies next year for what they paid for the Mohave last year, and if they did, well, yes, they have a lot to learn. But did YOU listen to MKR's sales pitch on how much the Mohaves and lessers, and in turn the supers will still be worth in the coming years? And then see them turn around and crap on everyone who ended up buying them?

There are people here that make their living from these animals, and that doesn't mean they don't do it for the love of the animals. But these folks HAVE to look at this as a business, and for someone to come in and purposely attempt to flood the market and crash the prices.....I can completely understand them being pretty darn upset. Then there's those like myself, who scrimped and saved to buy a snake that they truly found as awesome, and really hoped to be able to get a decent return from the investment, besides having that animal to enjoy for themselves. MKR crapped on them as well.

Sure, they have every "right" to sell the animals for whatever they want to. On the other hand, people have every right to be angry at them for undercutting them. I'm not sure how exactly you think MKR did nothing to "do the damage" , and I'm not sure how them not attending Daytona would be a blow to the market itself? And I'm REALLY not sure why them doing this would make you refer them to anyone. Fine, if you don't like what some "big breeders" have said about them, don't refer people to those who said things....but what has MKR done to actually EARN that referral, besides crapping on past customers?

I just keep wondering what morph they plan on sinking next. Personally, I was planning on investing in clowns this coming year (and actually contemplated buying them from MKR), but looking at the seeming mass-production of these coming out at MKR, I'm looking in other directions instead.

Originally Posted by Cat_72

Denise,

while I can't say that I agree in threatening them with any kind of bodily harm, I still have to say that I understand (and feel) the frustration of what MKR did. No one that has any kind of experience in this business was "expecting to", or even trying to market them in the same way as the recessive morhs, as you said. We all realize that the market on codoms will gradually decline. Eventually. No one expected to sell babies next year for what they paid for the Mohave last year, and if they did, well, yes, they have a lot to learn. But did YOU listen to MKR's sales pitch on how much the Mohaves and lessers, and in turn the supers will still be worth in the coming years? And then see them turn around and crap on everyone who ended up buying them?

There are people here that make their living from these animals, and that doesn't mean they don't do it for the love of the animals. But these folks HAVE to look at this as a business, and for someone to come in and purposely attempt to flood the market and crash the prices.....I can completely understand them being pretty darn upset. Then there's those like myself, who scrimped and saved to buy a snake that they truly found as awesome, and really hoped to be able to get a decent return from the investment, besides having that animal to enjoy for themselves. MKR crapped on them as well.

Sure, they have every "right" to sell the animals for whatever they want to. On the other hand, people have every right to be angry at them for undercutting them. I'm not sure how exactly you think MKR did nothing to "do the damage" , and I'm not sure how them not attending Daytona would be a blow to the market itself? And I'm REALLY not sure why them doing this would make you refer them to anyone. Fine, if you don't like what some "big breeders" have said about them, don't refer people to those who said things....but what has MKR done to actually EARN that referral, besides crapping on past customers?

I just keep wondering what morph they plan on sinking next. Personally, I was planning on investing in clowns this coming year (and actually contemplated buying them from MKR), but looking at the seeming mass-production of these coming out at MKR, I'm looking in other directions instead.

Greed.. there is still the potential for a decent return on the investment of any of these snakes. Decent means profit in a business and any business you get into you should expect no profit for the first 2 years.

If I paid 2K for a pastel last year and only have one male to breed and I sell the babies for even the reduced price this year, it's not going to take that many to equal my 2K investment, even adding expenses into it. If I can't do it in one year, I can damn sure do it in two, which is still better than what is taught as the expected return in a new business. No, maybe I won't make 1K or 10-20K per snake like people are used to in the recessive morphs, but then again, I'm not all about greed.

Let's face it, the bp market has been dropping for a while with the main investments being albinos and piebalds anyway. They're 'old news' and the market was flooded with these already. So MKR should have set a limit on how many they produce so as not to upset the rest of the breeders?

You misunderstood what I said about the Daytona thing.. my comments were about them being threatened if they DO show up. Yeah, I really want to do business with people who resort to that kind of bullying. (insert sarcasm) Anyone threatening bodily harm because their turf isn't as successful as they planned on it being would be enough to do damage to the business of the one doing the threatening. Big breeders threatening bodily harm is worse, and will affect the market, because the little consumers like me will see that and do just what I did, decide to go elsewhere with the business.

Business is business, MKR and others like them breeding on a smaller scale got into the bp morph counting on these co-doms; they didn't get into the business when people were investing and breeding long term for the recessives. Their marketing will be different simply because of that, that's the way the ball bounces. It's the American way of enterprise.

Everyone buying morphs expects the prices to drop but say you bought a mojave from MKR for example last year and paid $2500. Then 6-8 months later they are selling the exact same thing that they sold you but for $800. You wouldn't be upset?

The days of 6 digit morphs are gone. So are the days with prices of 20K plus for a single animal. Everyone knows that who is breeding these animals.
It's just that some are producing tons of certain animals and dumping them on the market all at once a week before the largest reptile show takes place.

They should not be threatened with harm but I don't blame anyone who is pissed at them right now for pulling this stunt.

I am also curious to see how many of the people that think MKR did nothing wrong by unloading 50 mojaves at dirt cheap prices a week prior to Daytona actually has a significant amount of money tied up in BP morphs?

Please Let Me Clarify Something.in An Earlier Post I Mentioned Some Threats Made To Morph King Reptiles.that Was Not Me Making Any Threats Towards Them,i Was Simply Stating What I Heard At The Hamburg,pa.reptile Show From Several People That I Had Talked To.the People That Were Making These Threats Were Very Angry About The Business Practices Of Morph King Reptiles.i Would Never Take It That Far,simply Adjust My Prices And Move On. Peace Everyone !

Originally Posted by SoulSmilen

Greed.. there is still the potential for a decent return on the investment of any of these snakes. Decent means profit in a business and any business you get into you should expect no profit for the first 2 years.

If I paid 2K for a pastel last year and only have one male to breed and I sell the babies for even the reduced price this year, it's not going to take that many to equal my 2K investment, even adding expenses into it. If I can't do it in one year, I can damn sure do it in two, which is still better than what is taught as the expected return in a new business. No, maybe I won't make 1K or 10-20K per snake like people are used to in the recessive morphs, but then again, I'm not all about greed.

Let's face it, the bp market has been dropping for a while with the main investments being albinos and piebalds anyway. They're 'old news' and the market was flooded with these already. So MKR should have set a limit on how many they produce so as not to upset the rest of the breeders?

You misunderstood what I said about the Daytona thing.. my comments were about them being threatened if they DO show up. Yeah, I really want to do business with people who resort to that kind of bullying. (insert sarcasm) Anyone threatening bodily harm because their turf isn't as successful as they planned on it being would be enough to do damage to the business of the one doing the threatening. Big breeders threatening bodily harm is worse, and will affect the market, because the little consumers like me will see that and do just what I did, decide to go elsewhere with the business.

Business is business, MKR and others like them breeding on a smaller scale got into the bp morph counting on these co-doms; they didn't get into the business when people were investing and breeding long term for the recessives. Their marketing will be different simply because of that, that's the way the ball bounces. It's the American way of enterprise.

First of all.....I have these animals because I LIKE them. It has NOTHING to do with me being greedy, TYVM. And I'm not sure what the sentence, "Decent means profit in a business" actually means....?

And you still didn't answer my question, you siad that you never referred anyone to MKR in the past, but you will now. Why? They have done nothing different than they have in the past, besides crashing the Mohave market. What have they done to EARN that referral from you?

I'm also curious...which "big breeders" that you used to refer people to actually made threats? And where do you get the idea that MKR breeds on a "small scale"???? Do you have any idea how many animals they have/produce?

Originally Posted by SPJ

I am also curious to see how many of the people that think MKR did nothing wrong by unloading 50 mojaves at dirt cheap prices a week prior to Daytona actually has a significant amount of money tied up in BP morphs?

Steve, from what I've seen, I'd gather that about 99% of those who have posted here supporting what MKR has done does NOT have any significant amount of money already invested in Ball Pythons.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the original ad on KS selling the Mojaves for $800.00 say that Morph King was doing this because they were NOT going to Daytona? If it wasn't the Mojave ad I know it was in one of their ads. Is there a list of vendors in Daytona anywhere? Is Morph King on it?

Oh and by the way here is another ad right here on Fauna for $800.00 male Mojaves and male Spiders for $950.00.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/pp_c...?product=25555