is this a desparate business in need of funds?

bob,i never asked you to sell your boas to accomadate my bottom line. i did say that it was your business decision on what you sell your boas for.and it was your business decision on how many thousands you wanted to lose on each boa.best of luck to you in your future breedings

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

bob,you come on here under the false premise that the money was for your childs college education,then you talk about the 40,000.00 truck that you just bought.you also were running ads looking to get a very expensive tight turn lawn mower.which is it.it can't be them all.

once again, at the time of my email to you i was selling sunglows for $4500.00 and no matter what you say thats the facts.

bob,best of luck with your future breedings. ED CLARK

Again Ed, you are failing to show rational thought. My lifestyle, whether it be my vehicles, my home, my snake collection or my child's college fund is irrelevant to my pricing mechanisms. But, just for snickers sakes, do the math:

1) One litter alone produced $30,000. Obviously more than enough to help fund an IBS fund up to my maximum write off allowance. Obviously more than enough to buy a zero turn mower. And, even after all of that, there is still enough money to go into a savings account. After all, with 0% financing, why would I use any of my own money towards my truck?

Ed, try to stick to the issues at hand. As a reminder, it would be:

1) Your inability to mind your own business
2) Your insane desire to meddle in mine and numerous others pricing
3) Your lack of coherency of 1 & 2

Ed, what I would like to know is how in the world you think you can justify sending me that email? Or, starting this post? If your collection is so dependent upon my prices, then I would highly encourage you to find other employment and do this as a side hobby. It would be much more rewarding for you knowing that you don't have to sell animals in order to pay your bills.

Griz

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

bob,i never asked you to sell your boas to accomadate my bottom line. i did say that it was your business decision on what you sell your boas for.and it was your business decision on how many thousands you wanted to lose on each boa.best of luck to you in your future breedings

And I do believe Ed I then sent you an email outlining what compound interest does vs me sitting on 06 babies for an additional 12-18 months.

You're right, you did not ask me to sell my boa's. However, you did feel the desire to verbally insult me, to imply that I was a whore, to try and demean an individual who is simply trying to provide MY family with a better life. I reckon that makes you feel like a real man, doesn't it Ed?

Griz

This has been a fairly interesting read. I enjoy reading everyones opinions on this subject that I too find frustrating. Here's a comment I made on another forum regarding a similiar situation...

Someone made mention of Codom BPs being so cool & easy to reproduce...

The problem with Codoms is that it's so easy to reproduce in a short amount of time. Which means their are more chances for individuals who don't care about the market to ruin it. If you look at the prices of Spiders & Pastels compared to just 2-3 years ago, they've dropped tremendously.

A good example with Leopard Geckos is the Mack Snow. Just last year, what were they selling for? $750-1000? Within a year, you can now get them for $75-100! That is insane. I am very glad I didn't jump into Macks last year, I would have been ticked spending that much money on an animal to not even be able to recoop my purchase price.

Someone brought up MKR & their $800 mojaves...

MKR isn't looked on to kindly by the BP community due to what they do to the market, so I wouldn't bring their name up as a positive comparison.

Yes, they are very, very beautiful animals...But the average person doesn't spend $10,000 on a single animal just because it looks pretty. It's an investment.

How would you feel if you just dropped a couple grand on an animal with the intention to recoop the purchase the following year & a non-name came up the following season and sold them for a small precentage of what they sold for the previous year?

Sadly, not many people think of the consequences surrounding their actions, THOSE are the people who are in it just for the buck.

I think that pretty much sums up my opinion.

Originally Posted by Griz

Amy, I understand what you are saying. But, here is my gripe. These are his animals. MKR is accountable to him and only him. If he wants to sell his animals for pennies on the dollar then who are we to say otherwise? If he is able to produce these animals at a lower overhead then the competition then it will reflect so in his prices.

Well I think you know my name is Bill from past thread participation.

Originally Posted by Griz

I have already reaped a huge profit off of the parents of my sunglow litter. When they produce again this next year I will be selling my babies for even less. Why? Because I can. Because I have already seen a huge return on my investment. Because I truly enjoy making this hobby enjoyable (read affordable) for others. Because I like the idea that the money I am receiving is ensuring the future success of my children since their college will be paid for. Because I enjoy some of the finer things in life that this hobby affords me. It is NOT about maximizing my returns on every single animal. It is about knowing what the market will allow, what my finances will allow, and most important, what my family needs in order to continue our standard of living. It will never be about making sure my animals does not affect the bottom line of Ed Clark or any breeder for that matter.

I could care less how much you money you made. This thread wasn't about you.

Originally Posted by Griz

I probably would not have jumped in on this conversation had it not been Ed Clark that started it. He's proven himself to be incapable of rational thought when it comes to others pricing. He has also proven himself incapable of controlling his thoughts and emails. How would you like to be enjoying your day only to have someone who you had never heard of call you a whore? And for what? For selling your animals based upon market allowances?

Griz

This very topic about MKR is on every forum I participate on and alot I don't. This is far beyond what Ed thinks. I don't agree with the email he sent you, but I also don't agree with the "Wal-mart" mentality to our hobbies. What MKR did was a very calculated action against other breeders and there is alot more going on than just selling cheap. I just wish people would quit using these animals with a bottom dollar motivation. Like I said, I don't know the situation of the Sunglow market.

MKR says he is doing this for his customers, do you really think he cares? How about the ones that bought mojaves from him last year for full price? I could care less about how much he makes off selling snakes a year, but he sure likes to brag about it.

Mojaves are going to be a hard sell now, everyone is afraid of what he will sell them for next year. So did he help the market? Did he really help our hobby? Or did he help his pocket book? They are all connected in the long run and we need to stop and realize that.

I don't have a problem with you Bob or your opinion. We just need to make sure we do the things we do for the right reasons.

Bob,

Look at it this way. Say you just bought your pair of sunglows last year and paid $6K for them. This year out of the blue, another breeder comes in with dozens of pairs for sale at $1K per pair (and a week before one of the largest shows in the country is to take place no less). This causes a huge disruption in the market and in turn it causes others to have to adjust down just to try and recoup a portion of what they have invested in their breeding stock. You would not be upset? That's just a market correction? It's OK for someone to drop the market out from under you?

bob,i really dont know what it is your mad at.
is it the rude email i sent you months ago.
is it this thread that i started here.
is it the coral sunglow boa that you tried to beat me down on in price.

if you have something you want to talk about,call me or email me.it dont belong on this thread.

Originally Posted by Bill & Amy

Well I think you know my name is Bill from past thread participation.



I could care less how much you money you made. This thread wasn't about you.




This very topic about MKR is on every forum I participate on and alot I don't. This is far beyond what Ed thinks. I don't agree with the email he sent you, but I also don't agree with the "Wal-mart" mentality to our hobbies. What MKR did was a very calculated action against other breeders and there is alot more going on than just selling cheap. I just wish people would quit using these animals with a bottom dollar motivation. Like I said, I don't know the situation of the Sunglow market.

MKR says he is doing this for his customers, do you really think he cares? How about the ones that bought mojaves from him last year for full price? I could care less about how much he makes off selling snakes a year, but he sure likes to brag about it.

Mojaves are going to be a hard sell now, everyone is afraid of what he will sell them for next year. So did he help the market? Did he really help our hobby? Or did he help his pocket book? They are all connected in the long run and we need to stop and realize that.

I don't have a problem with you Bob or your opinion. We just need to make sure we do the things we do for the right reasons.

I will address each post separately.

Bill, when I typed the reply to you I was on my cell phone. Putting Amy's name in place of yours was an oversight not a slight. Don't read more into that then what there is.

As for how much money I made, you COMPLETELY missed the point. The point was not "oh, look at what Bob makes." The point was, even selling at rock bottom prices (MY PRICES) I was able to make over a 500% profit on my investment! That is the point I was making. How much of a profit is too much?

Also, my "mentality" is nowwhere near that of Walmart. However, some individuals opinions on here are very close to that of Enron. Get as much as you can while you can and screw the little guy. Who are you (used in a general term) to tell me how to set my prices? Who are you dictate what is fair and what is not? Keep in mind, these are MY animals. Not yours and therefore it takes a lot of audacity for an individual to send me UNSOLICITED emails chastising me for my prices.

Lastly, a lot of you keep throwing out the tag line about all they care about is the money. Of course that is what you call the BOTTOM LINE! For the love of God man, this is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! I get to spend hours with animals I love and make a very nice profit doing so. How often do you get to say that? More importantly, why don't you email all of my clients who purchased from me and ask them what was more important to me? Was it selling them a very high quality animal at a fair price? Or was it all about gouging the customer?

For those of you who keep stating that people like MKR are simply in it for the money. Why don't you instead ask yourself why your prices are so high? It would appear to me, and countless others, that your motivations simply come down to "it's all about the money." Funny how that is so easily and appropriately turn around, isn't it?

Griz

PS Not that I should need to but I will. The vast majority of the above post is not direct towards you Bill but to the masses as a whole.

Originally Posted by SPJ

Bob,

Look at it this way. Say you just bought your pair of sunglows last year and paid $6K for them. This year out of the blue, another breeder comes in with dozens of pairs for sale at $1K per pair (and a week before one of the largest shows in the country is to take place no less). This causes a huge disruption in the market and in turn it causes others to have to adjust down just to try and recoup a portion of what they have invested in their breeding stock. You would not be upset? That's just a market correction? It's OK for someone to drop the market out from under you?

Steve there is a difference between being frustrated (of which I would be) and publically, as well as privately, attacking someone. When I buy animals I know full well that I will not get my investment back unless I produce large quantities. I FULLY anticipate that prices will go down. They have to. But, it's called market volatility and it's part and parcel to this industry (as well as countless others).

Griz

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

bob,i really dont know what it is your mad at.
is it the rude email i sent you months ago.
is it this thread that i started here.
is it the coral sunglow boa that you tried to beat me down on in price.

if you have something you want to talk about,call me or email me.it dont belong on this thread.

Then you really are dense. I get mad when individuals like you show their true color. I get mad when you apologize to me only to be calling someone else out from the side of your mouth. I get mad when you come onto this thread and outright lie about items to try and bolster your claims. After all, why don't you post my emails about this coral sunglow you have. You can't because they never ocurred. I believe I emailed you one time asking why you adjusted your prices but never did I try to beat you down on price. After all, I would NEVER buy an animal from you solely based upon your lack of professionalism.

Griz