Enough is enough with the classifieds (*or* Why you cannot reply to classified ads) - Page 4 - FaunaClassifieds
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FaunaClassifieds Site HELP & Feedback Forum Anything of a nature concerning this website, moderators, admin, or anything having to do with how it is being run, should go here. Criticism is welcome, but abusive antagonism is not. THIS IS NOT THE FORUM FOR FEEDBACK CONCERNING BUYERS AND SELLERS! Such posts are ONLY allowed as replies to classified ads posted by the specific member involved in a specific issue with you.

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Old 06-05-2011, 10:17 AM   #31
jntreptiles
I say locking it down to only paid members is a good start, but total lock down may be an even better solution in the end.

I know of some people who do very well in the classifieds, I have never really had what I would call overwhelming success, however I have personally stopped advertising in the classifieds because of the following issue:

1. Buyers either cant or choose not to read the entire content of the ad before they post, so you spend the majority of your time answering questions that have already been stated in the ad, which is a complete waste of time, AND if you happen to reply to said buyer stating any of the above, that is when the games, and badgering, and disruptive posts seem to happen.

Examples: How many people have placed ads that clearly state "no trades at this time, no shipping at this time" to only have the first post be "interested in any trades?, how much shipped to xxxxx".

So although I am not a paid member at this time, I think that locking it out to only members as a trial to start is a good idea. If a seller really wants to move their animals they will list all of the pertinent contact info so that I can email or call them.

I also agree that we are not infants here, and people should be held accountable for their actions, and if they cant follow the rules then dont play the game.
 
Old 06-05-2011, 11:37 AM   #32
snowgyre
Here's a sticky situation that I wouldn't be sure how to handle without being able to post in an advertisement, and I would like to know the procedure if posting does eventually get turned off.

I often skim ads for species that I know are State or Federally endangered, species of special concern, or subjected to different sorts of protection depending upon the state. Recently, there was an advertisement for spotted turtles in Rhode Island selling for $250 each, when Rhode Island has extremely clear laws about the ownership (permit required) and selling (absolutely not permitted) of spotted turtles. The seller wasn't violating any Faunaclassifieds rules that I know of in his advertisement, but he was violating state law.

In this situation, do we report the ad to a moderator to get it locked, or do we post in the BOI despite the fact the seller has not violated any Faunaclassifieds rules? I would be extremely reluctant to contact sellers in this situation, because poaching is such a huge problem for many of these species. For example, I used to know a biologist who, after showing a "friend" his bog turtle study site, later returned to find that every single wild bog turtle had been captured and presumably sold to the pet trade. Considering all of the problems we're having with the U.S. Legislature trying to pass laws against reptile ownership, this is a relatively uncommon situation but it needs to be addressed immediately when it does happen.
 
Old 06-05-2011, 12:27 PM   #33
WebSlave
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowgyre View Post
Here's a sticky situation that I wouldn't be sure how to handle without being able to post in an advertisement, and I would like to know the procedure if posting does eventually get turned off.

I often skim ads for species that I know are State or Federally endangered, species of special concern, or subjected to different sorts of protection depending upon the state. Recently, there was an advertisement for spotted turtles in Rhode Island selling for $250 each, when Rhode Island has extremely clear laws about the ownership (permit required) and selling (absolutely not permitted) of spotted turtles. The seller wasn't violating any Faunaclassifieds rules that I know of in his advertisement, but he was violating state law.

In this situation, do we report the ad to a moderator to get it locked, or do we post in the BOI despite the fact the seller has not violated any Faunaclassifieds rules? I would be extremely reluctant to contact sellers in this situation, because poaching is such a huge problem for many of these species. For example, I used to know a biologist who, after showing a "friend" his bog turtle study site, later returned to find that every single wild bog turtle had been captured and presumably sold to the pet trade. Considering all of the problems we're having with the U.S. Legislature trying to pass laws against reptile ownership, this is a relatively uncommon situation but it needs to be addressed immediately when it does happen.
It is impractical for management of this site to know every state, local, federal, and international law concerning animals and products offered for sale, or listed as being wanted on this site. And quite honestly, we are not going to take on that sort of responsibility. To claim that we are would then put us into substantial legal liability in that the presumption would be that anything offered here is legal in all ways in all localities. All transactions are solely between the parties involved, and it is entirely THEIR responsibility to determine any legalities that such transaction might involve them in.

If you see something taking place that you know is illegal in the context of the offering, then you should contact the legal authorities who would have jurisdiction in this matter. It is their responsibility to deal with such issues, and have the authority to do so.
 
Old 06-05-2011, 12:38 PM   #34
WebSlave
Quote:
Originally Posted by JColt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskew View Post
I call horse hockey! Micro moderating at it's finest. If an ad smells like fish and your willing to let an unknowing buyer be taken for a ride and not pull that ad, well sir you're as bad as that seller. But to penalize another member for questioning or "badgering" a seller who is blatantly dishonest or is talking out of their arse is just absurd.
They never said they would allow a bad ad to stay. They are just eliminating the attacks. Much easier to get rid of a bad posting then numerous replies that contain ton's of stuff people were asked not to do.
Just to make something clear that has been expressed in the past, we do not act as judges in such matters. We do not make judgment calls on who is a good or bad buyer, or a good or bad seller. We merely try to provide the tools on this site to help others to make that determination for themselves.

Just because someone is posting ads on this site does not mean that we approve of them. Nor does the fact that someone has been banned from posting ads on this site mean that we are claiming that they are bad to deal with. Bannings take place because of someone's ACTIONS here on this site in reference to the rules, not because of their status as a "bad guy".

Us making any such claims that we weed out "bad guys" would then put us in the unenviable position of then being responsible for every transaction that takes place here. The presumption would be that anyone selling (or buying) on this site has been approved in some manner simple because they ARE here, and therefore can be trusted completely by the OP in any transaction they engage in. Obviously that would be an extremely foolish position for us to place ourselves in. Just as obviously, I have no intention of exposing myself, this site, or the mods, to that sort of liability. YOU are expected to do all the footwork and research necessary to make the determination if your transaction is wise for YOU. YOU are expected to take every precaution you can to protect yourself from being taken for a ride from a bad deal. Quite frankly, that just is not our job, nor responsibility.

I hope that I have made this issue more clear concerning our position.
 
Old 06-05-2011, 03:48 PM   #35
JColt
I probably didnt word that correctly. I mean that this site would not allow knowingly a scam ad to stay up.
 
Old 06-05-2011, 09:10 PM   #36
Mistyck
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhmoore View Post
So much for being constructive....
Quote:
Originally Posted by WebSlave View Post
I explained my reasoning. Take it or leave it. No skin off my butt either way.
They're just I don't think they'll understand, and they'll just keep griping, but at least they can't do it in the classifieds anymore, right?
 
Old 06-06-2011, 02:20 AM   #37
hannahbug7
Quote:
Originally Posted by WebSlave View Post
I've been looking over the statistics for infractions that the mods have had to dish out, and BY FAR they are spending most of their time in the classifieds section. Problems such as disruptive posts, downright nastiness, members creating false accounts to bump their ads, getting someone also to alternate as a "bump buddy", and all sorts of replies to ads that really have no business being there.

Two problems here: (1) This is giving my mods far more work than they need to be putting in here as volunteers. And (2), the classifieds section has become actually HOSTILE to advertisers trying to sell their animals or merchandise on this site.

This NEEDS to stop.

Yes, some is simply ignorance of new members not knowing the ropes. But they get an infraction for their actions, then get pissed about it and sometimes wind up leaving. So there is no real good way to handle this after the fact. Do I really want to just out right ban anyone immediately who causes these problems? I don't think so. That just tends to rub people the wrong way and can be self defeating.

As I have indicated in the past, there is a simple solution to this sort of problem, but obviously it is not perfect or I would have already implemented it. And that is, to simply STOP all replies to classified threads. Rather than just do the cold turkey approach, I will first limit replies to classified threads so that only paid members can utilize that function. I will then evaluate how effective that has been, and if not enough, then that function ceases for ALL members. The classifieds will become strictly a single post display of what an advertiser has to offer, and that is it. Of course they will need to provide adequate contact info within that post, but that should be common sense anyway.

Another drawback is that other members will not be able to draw attention to a problem with the classified ad, whether about the seller/buyer him or her self, or misrepresentation or misidentification of the animal or other merchandise. Unfortunate, but that simply puts the burden on anyone considering engaging in a transaction with the OP to DO THEIR OWN HOMEWORK. Make certain you know who you are dealing with and what you are buying (or selling). The BOI is here for everyone to use. But I cannot force a horse to drink if it refuses to do so when provided water.

Another drawback is that post count here will likely drop quite a bit. But heck, there are nearly 5,000 entries in the infraction log, and that is telling me that there is a problem that really needs to be addressed here.

Yes, I know some people won't like this, and others will like it. Just par for the course here, but I believe I made it quite clear that I will do what is needed to make this site better. At least from my own perspective. I have no illusions, and will make NO attempts to try to please everyone. If you are one of those who do not like the change, I am sorry about that, but there doesn't appear to be much of an option.
I just don't see where I have done any of these things or done anything wrong...?
 
Old 06-06-2011, 03:23 AM   #38
hhmoore
Quote:
Originally Posted by hannahbug7 View Post
I just don't see where I have done any of these things or done anything wrong...?
The fact that you (or any number of other people) haven't done those things doesn't mean that it isn't a widespread problem. Unfortunately, it isn't feasible (I don't know if it is even possible) to go through and disable that option for just the members that are "part of the problem"....and, even if it was, there would still be people arguing that they weren't that much of a problem, lol. Therefore, the available option is to turn off the ability to respond to classified ads for an entire usergroup. As it happens, I believe that the majority of the warnings and infractions for these violations have been given to the Registered Members usergroup (if for no other reason than that group holds the most members).

While this is largely prompted by the disruptive and hostile nature of some posts, it is also a cure for several other rule violations that exist primarily in the classifieds. We know it is an inconvenience to many; but rest assured, this isn't a knee jerk reaction. Rich has put this off for a long time, watching the situation deteriorate, and watching the infraction numbers climb. The reality of it is that the infraction numbers only tell part of the story - I don't know if "Warnings" show up in the compilation; but I KNOW that the many posts we have made in ads to keep things in check are not considered, nor are the scores of PMs we have sent out to people.
 
Old 06-06-2011, 04:03 AM   #39
the gecko geek
I understand all of the reasoning behind this, and in a way I agree with why it was done. But in a way us members, paid or just registered, have already done the work of weeding out the good and bad guys. Most of them have little red boxes under their names. Chances are that the same reason they got those red boxes was the same reason they got infractions. Why not just start there and then if the problem still persisted then keep going. I'm kinda getting irritated that the group of people I'm in always gets punished for something that a minority of the group is responsible for. It's just plain stupid. This is like telling your children that unless they become vegetarians they can no longer eat at your house. They can do everything else but eat there.

That's just my 2 cents.
 
Old 06-06-2011, 05:17 AM   #40
hhmoore
Let me make sure I understand....
You think we should sort through 80,000 members to find the ones with negative karma scores, and block those people from posting in the classifieds?

I don't want to address that as a suggestion until it is confirmed (why waste my time if I'm mistaken), so, in the meantime, let me ask this. What is it about posting in the classifieds that is so attractive to people? Do sellers really like doing business in public, so everybody sees the offers? Personally, I HATE people posting in my ads...I refuse to entertain offers that are submitted that way, and I don't want people cluttering my ads with questions. I might appreciate nice comments, but it is useless to put them in my ads. Why? Because I'm going to delete them anyway. Besides, those posts don't really belong in the classifieds.

I'm sorry that you feel you, as a registered member, are getting the short end of the stick, but I apparently don't put the same value on the ability to post in ads that you (and some others) do. It isn't as if you can't advertise, or that you are blocked from viewing the ads. (Yes, I know there was a period that the classifieds weren't free; but that was detrimental to the site and I don't see Rich revisiting that unless/until he just doesn't care what happens to the place.)
 

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