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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

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Old 12-23-2016, 12:22 AM   #91
Prahanien
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike (The M) View Post
Honestly, if you're able to get the money back that you initially put in and the court costs, I'd leave it at that. Yes, you won. Ty is clearly not going to hold up his end of the bargain, and is it really worth it to go down to Florida where you may or may not get what you won?

Consider the value of your own time, as well as the added level of a contentious hearing, if he shows. If you can get your $400 and court costs back, cut your losses, and call it a day.

The point has been made, and really, this thread has served its purpose.
I 100% feel like this is going to be the outcome. She will get back the money she fronted in the auction, not $3000. It may have been "promised" but there's probably a little too much semantics going on when it comes to the original raffle post. By us, she is owed the $3000, but from a legal standpoint, she's really only owed the $400.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 12:51 AM   #92
3240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dro B View Post
If I was standing in front of you, you wouldn't be stupid enough to insult my intelligence by looking me in the eye and telling me to my face that because of you and the other idiot cult-like followers of this man who ripped off all these people for raffle tickets doesn't owe the op a tegu or $3,000 dollars. You are a keyboard gangster trying to imply that someone else is a keyboard gangster. I was replying to a moron who said something 110% false, regaurdless of wether he was too lazy to read, or just ignorant enough not to comprehend what he read. Nobody with cognitive brain function could read what's been posted and say that the OP, who shelled out $400 with a small chance and likely no expectation of winning something, asking for what she won, which was a tegu and which she has always wanted to be the tegu, as opposed to the $3,000 cash that was promised if the situation that arose happened, is somehow trying to take advantage of this guy who has at present time, stolen from her.
You insult me personally yet I'm the "keyboard gangster"? This is not a conversation that we'd be having face to face.

Can you define what it means to be a "cult like follower"? I'll let you know if I fit the bill.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 12:58 AM   #93
Sugarhedgie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prahanien View Post
I 100% feel like this is going to be the outcome. She will get back the money she fronted in the auction, not $3000. It may have been "promised" but there's probably a little too much semantics going on when it comes to the original raffle post. By us, she is owed the $3000, but from a legal standpoint, she's really only owed the $400.
if raffles were legal in my state legally he would have to give what he promised, the march 9th post where he engages his followers is slightly different than the terms stated on march 10th when the auction actually was started. the difference being that on the march 10th post he did not specify what type of albino, it just stated a baby albino tegu assumed to still be one that he produced, because he did produce only purple albino (t +) and the other 2 winners did receive t+ albinos this is what i should have received as well...
this is why the clerk postponed it again. he wanted to give me time to contact the the appropriate agencies, FL court and counsel in FL, to discuss.

it is now my understanding that in FL it IS legal to run a raffle as long as it is run for a non prophet organization. if it is taken to fl courts with discovery we will know a lot more. it is ashame that is had to come t o this. i never imagined it would because before i entered the raffle i was told ty is a stand u guy. not until after he refused to send me one of the prizes did i find out that he is not honest and as reputable as i thought, any of his followers have pm'd me expressing their disappointment as well and one person even apologized for the way he is handling this for the whole reptile community.

i may only get the $500 back but if i knew some of the things i know now i would not have risked loosing $400 to entering into a contract (the raffle) to win something that i would never receive. i dont know many people that would.

there are many people that agree with me and feel that ty should give what he promised and i know that his loyal followers probably see things one of his many ways.
if ty is not going to uphold his end of the deal with is looking like he is not all i can hope for at this point now is that hopefully no one will have to go through what i am going through with ty again. knowing what has happened in this situation people can now make their own decision and take the risk or not. its kind of like entering at your own risk
 
Old 12-23-2016, 01:35 AM   #94
Bobby Douglass
I've always been a fan of Ty but from what both parties have stated here and the screen shots in my opinion he certainly owes Michelle an albino tegu that he produced or $3000.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 01:55 AM   #95
nickolasanastasiou
There should not be any quotations being relayed from unidentified parties here. That needs to be curbed immediately and provided with attribution by name to avoid infractions.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 06:24 AM   #96
Lucille
Quote:
Originally Posted by typherp View Post

This was the first I heard of a recent post on FaunaClassifieds as I haven't been active on that site for a while now.
Yesterday, I sent you notification via Fauna email. Whether you are active or not, you should have received it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by typherp View Post
I have no time to read all the comments or even the initial complaint made by Michelle
I think that is a real mistake. I have advised Michelle to contact the recipients of the funding of this raffle, they will read the comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by typherp View Post
-all the albino tegus I produced were, to my surprise, T+ albinos. At this point, I decided to tell Michelle and others that, although I produced albino tegus, they were all expensive type and that I would buy 3 normal T- tegus from a friend to send to them.
Bait and switch, you baited the raffle with the expectation of critters produced by you, and then switched the prizes after the fact because the critters you produced were too nice for your supporters.


Quote:
Originally Posted by typherp View Post
I decided also that I would send her the tegu that I produced (T+ albino) since her contention was that she wanted one that I produced and not by someone else, but I didn't communicate that with her to the end because I wanted to see what kind of person she was
I do not believe this went down this way, but you seem to be saying that your choices are not motivated by honor, rather that you do whatever strikes your fancy at the time.

I think Ty is being somewhat supercilious, and feels that the comments that good people here have taken their time to write are not good enough for him to take his time to read. I feel that clearly Michelle deserves the prize under the original terms.
I believe sending links to this thread to assorted recipients in and out of the reptile world will help others see and judge the situation for themselves, and that some may choose to help Michelle, and that others may choose not to do business with Ty until this issue is resolved and Michelle receives what is rightfully owed to her.
I'll get started on that today. Meanwhile, thousands of views here on the site will show that others are reading the thread Ty did not have time for.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 10:57 AM   #97
Andy_G
So...the contest said that if he produces, then he will give the winners the tegus, and if he didn't produce, then he would give the winners $3,000. If he is so well off, generous and as kind as his reputation indicates him to be...why wouldn't it be the first choice to give the winners purple albino tegus even if their market value is much higher? Wouldn't that not only be the right thing to do, but further ELEVATE him even moreso in our community? It's what was produced and not something being resold so there's nothing to recoup. I don't understand and his actions do not sit well with me...whether the OP is being greedy or not or or whether she handled it 100% correctly or not is completely irrelevant...a man of his word should deliver on his own statements. It's really that simple and shouldn't be more complicated than that. Saying all of that...OP is really only out the cost of the tickets and I wouldn't be surprised if that's all a court will grant her.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 11:26 AM   #98
Mister Internet
There are a couple of area charities near Chicago that run "million dollar home" raffles every year. They accumulate tens of thousands of entries at $100+ a ticket, and the terms are clear... if you pay for the chance to win a million dollar house, and you WIN, you can have the million dollar house built, or you can take $1,000,000 in cash. Those are the TERMS. Now, image a couple scenarios:

A) Raffle participant pays $1,000 for 10 tickets in said raffle... their ticket is chosen, and they choose the $1M payout. Problem solved. Terms fulfilled.

B) Raffle participant pays $1,000 for 10 tickets in said raffle... their ticket is chosen, and they choose the $1M house to be built for them. Problem solved. Terms fulfilled.

C) Raffle participant pays $1,000 for 10 tickets in said raffle... their ticket is chosen. Raffle organizers specify in the terms that they are working with a builder who will already have the house BUILT by the time the raffle winners are chosen, and that the builder has promised them the final product will be worth $1M. The raffle organizers further specify that if the builder doesn't honor their agreement or doesn't finish the house in time, even though there's "close to zero chance" of that happening, the winner will instead receive $1M in cash. When it comes time to honor the raffle winner with their prize, the raffle organizers find out the house is actually worth TWO million, and they realize that they are leaving $1M "on the table" if they honor the terms of the raffle as originally specified. The raffle organizers then engage in semantic games by "Well, we promised you a ONE million dollar house, but not a TWO million dollar house... we can't give you this house because it's TEHNICALLY not what you won." The raffle participant, rightfully upset, then says "well, since THEN the builder didn't TECHNICALLY fulfill their end of the agreement, I'm now due the $1M cash prize that you said would be offered in place of the house, should the builder fail to fulfill their obligation." The organizers then reply, "But the builder DID produce a house,it's just not one that we can give you, so technically the terms were met... why are you so focused on the money, are you that greedy? You know we're a charity, right?" The participant says, "I'm focused on the money because you won't give me my house." The raffle organizers then offer, "Hey, so since we won't give you the house that was built, even though we said we would, since it's way nicer than the house you actually won, even though it's what we agreed on, and you seem to be REALLY concerned about money, how about we just give you your $1,000 back and call it a day?" The participant now replies, "No, that's not what I won and am rightfully owed." Raffle organizers say, "You know what, we were actually going to give you the house anyway if you dropped your insistence on making this right, but now that you've proved that all you care about is money instead of the charity we're holding this raffle for, you don't get anything."

I can tell you 2 things for sure... (C) is the situation that happened here, and if this had happened in real life, the people responsible for that bait and switch and resulting semantic games would be in jail right now.

This guy sounds like a good guy who got trapped by his own cavalier attitude towards his breeding prowess. He promised an albino if he produced one, but he only produced BETTER ones, and he didn't want to take the hit. This makes NO sense from a practical point of view, but it does make sense in the "leaving money on the table" point of view. If he had produced 15 tegus, 14 of which were T+, and one of which was T-, he's telling us he would have had no problem fulfilling the agreement. But, since he produced ALL T+, and they are worth more, he's not obligated to honor the agreement... AS IF IT'S THE BUYER'S FAULT THAT HE GOT LUCKY! THAT'S what's especially brazen about this... he's penalizing the buyer for his good luck. That's a low blow. If he only planned on having half T+ in total, then he's ALREADY way ahead of his game, but he has to hold on to one more T+ instead of honoring his agreement? A T+ he wasn't expecting to produce anyway?

It seems to be obvious here what the right thing to do is... what I can't understand is why someone who seems to have such a good heart and great track record is acting this way regarding an agreement with terms that HE SPECIFIED. NO ONE put a gun to his head and MADE him add the "if I don't produce one, I'll give you $3000 cash" caveat... HE CHOSE to add that as part of the TERMS. In fact, it's rather a silly caveat to add for a charity auction, as the charity doesn't get any more money than if he'd just written them a check for $3K and skipped the raffle. In the "I don't produce an albino, even though I did" scenario, he just becomes a money manager that has basically consolidated a bunch of people's tickets into cash winnings for one person, and the charity gets zero dollars. Seems like a very strange arrangement to me.

I don't see how the proper outcome is at all confusing for Mr. Park, but he may be succumbing to the echo chamber of his FB fans, which as we all know is a very poor substitute for real life. The BOI is real life, and I think the comment here in support of the OP reflect that.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 11:39 AM   #99
ShadowAceD
Highly disappointing, Ty -- your attitude towards this situation and your own written response here suggests you believe your reputation to be so robust that you can afford the negative impact for allowing this outcome.

Your behavior also suggests you are well aware that you are likely to lose your case so you are going to do what you can to delay it and force her to endure the litigation. A concerning notion considering that the reasonable assumption at this point is even if she wins she is not going to get what the court states she is owed because it is up to her to be able to recover the verdict allowances which will be more resources used by here unless you pony up from the get go.

You do not get to take someone's money for a raffle, ignore your own terms when said raffle has concluded and then decide someone is not worthy of what you yourself said they are owed. Perhaps if you had returned her original 400.00 there could be some wiggle room here, but you are the one who stated that 3,000.00 was an option should you not produce the animals you claimed you you would be producing, that was not something she wrote nor something she "exploited".

It would seem that your charitable tendencies towards the community are something you believe make you immune to scrutiny in such a situation, but that is far from the case.

You allowed a raffle of chickens before the eggs hatched; while it was with good intention, such a thing is a very large gamble, particular if you, on your own accord and free will, state you will offer monetary compensation from your own pocket should the breeding not go as planned. This is a corner you put yourself in and instead of working your way out of the corner with dignity and class, you are lashing out at a winner as if it is her fault you failed to produce what you believed you would.

She is not obligated to accept something beyond the terms you, yourself, laid out.

She is not obligated to accept a Tegu someone else produced.

She is not obligated to accept that you did not disclose what type of Albino animal would be given and, therefore, refuse to offer up a more expensive Albino.

She is not obligated to ignore that you stated you will pay out of your own pocket if things did not turn out as the raffle suggested they would.

Ty, I implore you to do the right thing here and not become one of those people who thinks their good deeds will always protect them from the occasional bad one while you make claims against this woman to try and harm her reputation. You, as you have presented yourself over the years, should be better than that.

You made a mistake, the mistake has evolved into a larger mistake over time, but it can still be corrected.

There will be a scar, of course, but scars fade over time.

Please do not punish someone else because the odds were not in your favor and because you realized you made terms to a raffle you likely should not have.

She is owed a T- Albino you produced, a T+, if that is all you have, or the 3,000.00.

It really is that simple.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 11:47 AM   #100
srsb
I'll join the chorus of people agreeing that the OP is in the right, and Ty is in the wrong. No one thinks that Ty set out to make the raffle go in a different direction than planned, but since it did, Ty, you are the one responsible. As Tom said, you are responsible because of your GOOD luck in producing more expensive animals! But, still, the change in circumstances was on your end, not the OPs. You owe her a tegu or $3000.

And, as Lucille mentioned, that statement about not telling her what you were "planning" to do with sending the more expensive tegu "to see what kind of person she was", sounds fishy. But, if true, it shows a lot more of what kind of person you are than what kind of person Michelle is. I see absolutely no greediness in any of Michelle's statements - only a desire to get what she rightfully is due by winning the raffle. Wanting what is yours is not "greedy".

Apologize to Michelle, and send her a tegu or $3000, and people are likely to accept that this incident was a one time case where things went a bit sideways in an otherwise pretty great reputation, but in the end you accept responsibility that falls squarely on you.

Returning her $400, while it may turn out to be all that is required by law, is not "solving" things. It is weaseling out of a deal you made, on a technicality. You will not appear to have done the right thing in resolving this for only returning her $400.
 

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