Illinois state law issues

"From what I have heard, the ban on reptiles up there has only caused much much more problems then good. People are illegally keeping them and more are being released to die"

My point exactly!

Originally Posted by WTorres

I am not a PETA supporter, but I am a firm believer of animal rights.

So what you are saying is you agree with people who would rather put animal rights before human rights?

Norway is a "welfare state" meaning that they give there people almost everything. Right down to money for there honey moon. Infact it was a place I was considering at one point....

I just don't understand people who enterain ideals such as this. This is called SOCIALISM, you don't have a choice in what you do, how much you make, what kind of pets you can have, whether you can own a gun or not, and no choosing between Folgers or Hills Bros... I find that the only thing keeping you from desiring to live their just sickening and competely against the reason this is the US.

I just don't understand people who enterain ideals such as this. This is called SOCIALISM, you don't have a choice in what you do, how much you make, what kind of pets you can have, whether you can own a gun or not, and no choosing between Folgers or Hills Bros... I find that the only thing keeping you from desiring to live their just sickening and competely against the reason this is the US.

-Okay that post really disturbed me. Are you aware that comunism/socialism has been completly out of western Europe for almost 16 years?????? I would never move to a comunist country. I am still living here arn't I? Did you know Great Britan is also a welfare state?....hmmm I think you should work on your history.

I am still living here arn't I?

- sorry I didn't mean to contradict myself if that’s what it sounded like. I meant I am proud to live in this country, that’s why I am still here. However, yes there was a time in my life that I was looking at different places. To be honest I would still look today if a great job opportunity popped up in a (democratic or republic nation). Government supported health care is almost in every industrialized nation. Take Canada for example. Are you going to tell me they are socialist as well?

Originally Posted by WTorres

You seem to be jumping the gun here. Has anyone defined sweater boxes as improper housing quarter yet? Now, even I oppose keeping animals stored away as mere breeding stock in unsanitary, and inhumane conditions. That being either a sweater box or a 10 gallon tank.

Can you clarify that? You state in one sentence "unsanitary and inhumane", then next sentence state "that being either a sweater box or a 10 g. tank" so are you stating that if the sweater box or 10 g. tank is unsanitary, or that you consider a sweater box or 10 g. tank inhumane?

This all is a bit off subject but I feel it needs to be addressed to provide understanding as to how all of this bill is absolutely wrong for those of you that don't see the harm in it!
I don't know how these liberal whack-jobs have managed to pass off the ideal that government control over everything is not socialism but it's quite unfortunate that alot of people are buying it. Socialism is alive all over Europe, it is impossible to deny it. Here is a definition of Socialism so you may understand: [quote]a system of collective or government ownership and management of the means of production and distribution of goods. Because of the collective nature of socialism, it is to be contrasted to the doctrine of the sanctity of private property that characterizes capitalism.[\QUOTE]
Wow, kinda sounds like Canada's Healthcare system along with France, Spain and Germany! Are you aware that the richer people in Canada do not utilize the welfare healthcare system since it is a lousy failure?
Government control over our lives whether it be healthcare or Reptile care will push us further and further towards control over our lives...

I forgot to add that the definition came from Yahoo Encyclopedia....

Gotta give props where they are due!

As I beleive, Europeans are allowed to sell there products and items by themselves without goverment controll. So how is that a complete controll of goverment? I think the main thing that brings us into this argument is are two political veiws. I do not like to express mine (online and in my bussiness name: "Tripple H Herps") simply becouse I have found that threw bussiness it is not always a good idea. Regardless of your oppinion. Even if the majority of people agree with you, the minority might find reason not to purchase from you. I personally beleive in a free health care system. You just said it yourself, the WELTHIEST of people don't go by it. Do you realize how many people in the US can not afford the luxury of a hospital if they are sick? Let alone the payments for health care? The govt up there does not have complete controll of the system, so it would not be socialist. They DO have private companys offering this service to the "richer" people. Yes this has gotten off the topic. How about we just quit nagging at each other via this forum and call it a draw...lol

Hopefully by now, we can all agree that nobody, not even the group here, can clearly interpret the bill. That's why some see it as ok and other's don't.
That's what scares me most. And it's not anybody's fault. The proposed bill is purposely, (I feel) written to be vague. That makes it easier for the bill supporters to reach, whatever their hidden agenda is.

One thing that is consistent is that the veterinarians will make out well. Getting a prescription on bird seed???!!! Are you kidding me?

My Dad is a vet, and I can't see him agreeing with this. If the writer of this bill is not a member of PETA, then I bet she is the wife or relative of a veterinarian. She even goes so far as to immune vets from this law. I know of a lot of vets that breed and sell reptiles, dogs, birds, etcs. This law will violate the fair market laws as well. A vet could provide all the required papers, tests, whatever, and have a corner on the market. Why do they put that clause in this bill?

Imagine, I have 50 baby bearded dragons that I plan to take to the show, so I bring them in to my vet for a health exam. I sell 10. (If I am lucky, because the guy next to me can sell them for 1/2 the price because he lives in an other state or chooses not to obey the law).
So the next show I have to again, take the remaining 40 back for an exam. By the time I get down to the last few baby dragons, how much do you think I would have to sell them for to even break even?

Here's were things go South.
The good guys, who are jumping through all the hoops go out of business because of obvious economics.

Basically, the good guys will continue to be good guys, or become the new "bad guy" and the bad guys will just keep doing what they are doing.

Instead of wasting everyone's time on new laws. They need to fix the old ones.

I don't mind being inspected and or liscensed, just as long as there are guidelines that I know are required. Just like restaurants with health codes.

But imagine if every time a restaurant, sold a steak dinner, the health code inspector had to be called in, to inspect that steak. The inspectors would get rich, that is until all the restaurants went out of business.

Just my thoughts.
Troy Dozier

Nothing to conferm this yet, but I just got word from Lee Watson of Lee Watson's Reptile Show in the Chicago area.
He tells me that the bill has been withdrawn.

He goes on to say, "We have already handled this".

Don't know what they did but I am very thankful.

Troy Dozier