Naturalist Guy, Kenneth Barnett

Kenneth, I support what you are doing. These invasive lizards are taking up habitat and food sources that the native wildlife need, your helping out.

These campaigns are waged periodically when sellers have the "audacity" to violate people's moral standards. The arguments are pretty consistent: raping nature, destroying wildlife for future generations, get a job instead of catching/selling animals, etc. Frequently, we are asked to pass judgment against the sellers...to ban them, or prohibit them from advertising. It hasn't happened yet, nor is it going to.
While I'm generally opposed to people capturing & selling native wildlife, the animals Mr Barnett is selling are not native. Further, he is not capturing animals in quantity, then keeping them until they sell. Read his posts - he catches an iguana or two, and maybe a few curlytails; then posts them. If they don't sell promptly, they are released.
Florida now hosts populations of a number of invasive reptile species. How many people get upset about sales of Deering Estate boas, or FL caught tegus?
To be clear, I neither support, nor condemn, Mr Barnett's activity...but, on a personal level, I think these holier-than-thou attitudes/campaigns get a bit ridiculous.

FWIW - I knew Ken Barnett many years ago. He's not some hack catching animals for spending money. He's quite knowledgeable, he takes some incredible photos, and - unless things have drastically changed (which I doubt) he truly cares about animals and conservation. Regardless of any misgivings I might have about the practice, I don't doubt that Ken believes he is doing a good thing. Sure - he's catching a wild creature that may well evade the hunters and animal control...and may not fall victim to dogs,alligators,feral cats, birds of prey, or unusually cold temperatures; but his rate of capture and sale isn't even going to make a dent in his neighborhood (let alone the county or state). What happens to any randomly selected FL can't be predicted; obviously, a lot of them survive and thrive...but many are killed, and a bunch are caught/sold by other people. Is Ken saving the ones he sells? Maybe some of them...but I find his approach more palatable than that of "normal" collectors.

Moderator hat on:


As far as the "harassment" - regardless of whether you agree with their arguments and rationale, Ken, you no doubt realize that a lot of people don't approve of capturing animals for the purpose of sale. We aren't going to say they can't express their feelings, as long as they don't violate the rules of this site in the process. If people are sending abusive, threatening, or profane messages via this site's contact systems is a problem we would address..."harassment", IMO, unless more than an unwanted message out two (from any given member); and, if you get involved with an exchange, it's more difficult to draw a clean line where it becomes harassment.
Regarding your PM about removing this thread - that isn't likely to happen. We don't delete BOI threads because the subject is displeased (or because the poster changes his mind). The policy on that is very clear - check The Rules.

Sorry about the weird breaks and missing/incorrect words in the above post. I'm working from a tablet, and missed a few things that it "fixed".

I fully support what you do and call upon others in FL to do the same. The reptile community is taking huge hits due to the issues FL is having. IMO, we need more people like Ken trying to get as many invasive reptiles back into the hands of herpers. Why shouldnt he make a few bucks off his time and effort? Animal control officers get paid to do what they do, except most of those animals are put down for no good reason.

Originally Posted by Joseal

I understand I contacted him with my opinion but NOONE deserves this kind of reply. I did not call him names or harass him. Read what I wrote. He replied in a manner that's offensive to women and men, in short he blew his top.

...You technically DID harass him, since you kept e-mailing him. You DID insult him and called him names:

Originally Posted by Joseal

Kenneth,

Quit trapping animals for resale. Period. Because they're being killed you feel you need to make a profit? That's your logic.

Take them all in and use your savings to build a sanctuary if you actually care so much.

Were destroying the ecosystem. Were destroying the earth. And it's up to us to look out for animals not profit off their skins. Because you don't know who you're selling to. And they could be using them for bait for all you know.

Act your age and grow. Illness should have made you more sensitive to animals not sitting at home figuring ways to make money off of them.

Get a job!

You essentially accused him of being insensitive, stupid, lazy (because he has no job) and childish. That would make anyone mad, especially if someone just came up out of the blue and started spouting insults.

And, you know, he just got over cancer. You kind of skimmed over that when you called him out to "act his age". Yeah, I'd be pretty livid, too.

Originally Posted by Joseal

What if you buy from him and didn't like his shipping or want a refund? He's going to act like this too? I have valid points and he did not have to reply this way. Here's the emails starting with his to me. And I didn't send an email after he warned me, my iPad broke my thread, so I sent two at once.

I highly doubt that an inquiry for purchasing an animal would procure the same reaction you received for insulting him. He seems, from his replies later in this forum thread, simply tired of having to deal with this sort of drama, and if there were issues with shipping or the animal itself, how would you know how he would react? Have you actually tried purchasing from him before addressing how he runs his business?

Originally Posted by Joseal

Even if I get in trouble over this, the cat is out of the bag. Now you know he doesn't really care about the reptiles, it's just the money.

I'm not too sure about that, Lori. All I get from this is you trying to be a vigilante... and failing. You didn't try having a civil conversation about the ethics of what he was doing or trying to accomplish. You attacked him. You provoked him. And then you turn around and use his anger to try and make him look bad? Seems shady and petty to me.

Regardless of whether or not you think making a profit on the animals he captures is ethical, those animals were probably going to be killed anyway. Opening a sanctuary and keeping them is likely financially out of the question, since he's trying to find them new homes. Because of his recent illness, he already said he was out of a job. You honestly think he has the funds to build and maintain a sanctuary from that? If you're so hard up for keeping these invasive (meaning they are DESTROYING the environment they're currently inhabiting) in a sanctuary, why not open one yourself?

Originally Posted by Joseal

Chopping up lizards as we speak for some good iguana stew. I eat them too by the way.

Iguana is DELICIOUS.

This is a joke. Dark, yes, but it, in no way, expresses that he's "just in it for the money".

By the way, Lori: breeders often don't know who they're selling to, especially online. Unless it's a personal friend, they don't know the home that their animal is going to. This isn't for just wild caught animals, but for every breeder, even outside of the reptile hobby.

I really am not for or against catching wild specimen and selling them. But in this case, I'd say that those who do end up in Ken's care are more likely to live out a full life. Once you lay out intelligently why it's unethical in Ken's case, Lori, I'm sure a lot of people would be more than willing to listen. But all of your "arguments" so far have been nothing but rambling and prattle, directed to be a mere attack. Accusing people of wrongdoing is not the way to get a civilized discussion going, and is certainly not the way to confront someone about it.

Maybe that's just me.

Originally Posted by Joseal

Were destroying the ecosystem. Were destroying the earth. And it's up to us to look out for animals not profit off their skins. Because you don't know who you're selling to. And they could be using them for bait for all you know.

Lori

Do you by any chance belong to PETA?

I support Kenneth on this one. He's doing nothing more than trying to "repair" Florida's natural ecosystem.

Kenneth, I think you should be quite happy this was brought to the BOI. Ok, it might have a red X over your name, but it only takes reading the first to realize who was harrassing who.

Lori, you were offensive first. Kenneths first email to you was very patient, especially considering you probably arent the first to email him with your thoughtless opinions. I dont think you even took the time to read and appreciate what he was trying to say before you blasted him more ignorance.

After your second email I dont blame Kenneth for telling you where to go in a not so polite manner. How many times do you think you can poke a sleeping bear before it bites?

Kenneth, as I live very far away from you, in a much colder climate, I had very little knowledge of feral lizards. I appreciate everything you have shared and I think you are doing a great thing for those lizards. Keep it up! And congratulations on beating cancer too.

Really? Lori, you want to chide someone for their writing skills? That is like the kettle calling the pot black.

I have no issues with what Kenneth is doing, he is saving a few animals from certain death.




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Hahaha this thread is hilarious. Fully support what you're doing Kenneth, would rather animals be rehomed than killed. One thing is for sure, they don't belong in SoFL. Keep on doing what you're doing man.

Tyler Hake