Rick Miller---proof?

Originally Posted by NEWReptiles

How so?



And its right to sell something as a "het" and then buy the animal back 3 years later after the buyer cared for it the entire time? And the only reason I'm getting anything is due to my purchase of the albino male.

Al I didn't say any of this was right. But it SURE isn't right that I refund you in full and you keep everything!! I sold the animal as a het because I bought it as het. I had no idea Rick Miller was scammimg me, nobody knew until recently. Its unfortunate Rick Miller did what he did. But you're not an innocent buy stander here, you knew the story and knew thats why I was selling them cheap. I sold them cheap in the event I had to buy them back. At that time $300 was A LOT for a normal female. Who knew these new morphs would surface causing normal females to increase in value.
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Don't even start with the not the same animals. I didnt sell them without pics.

I said that because you SAID I didn't supply a photo ID like I did something wrong. I've bought snakes from big breeders and didn't get a photo ID even when I requested one.
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As far as only having my word, well its worth a hell of alot more than some paperwork and others words floating around.

Al I value your word and hope you value mine. The paperwork I gave you must have been acceptable or you wouldn't have taken it. I handed it to you in person so you had every chance to say WAIT this isn't right. My intentions are the same now as they were when I sold them to you. I'm sure if you look me up here on the BOI you'll see I've always done the right thing. Well I thought I was done with my last post but I guess not. Ron Radloff

I had no idea Rick Miller was scammimg me, nobody knew until recently. Its unfortunate Rick Miller did what he did.

I could care less who Rick Miller scammed, I didn't buy them from him.

But you're not an innocent buy stander here, you knew the story and knew thats why I was selling them cheap.

WHAT, I knew the story? You told me that they were cheap because you didn't produce them.

This is a damn difficult situation to make a call on but I have one more question from an outsider standpoint.

Al, to the best of your memory, what were the details of the genetics guarantee? Were specific remedies discussed or was it a general "I'll take care of you if they don't prove out" kind of a thing?

Also, did Ron address the fact that he was charging less because he did not produce the hets in question?

BTW, the reason I asked about the market price at the time of sale is that I beliebe that would be a major factor in deciding intent. If you purchased the animals for a price substantially below market (50% or more) I would tend to think that they were discounted for the reason that Ron stated. Close to market (10% or 15%) would indicate more of a breeder courtesy discount.

Either way it is a difficult situation that I hope you work out.

Originally Posted by NEWReptiles

I could care less who Rick Miller scammed, I didn't buy them from him.


Al, I didn't say you bought them from Rick. I did say I would stand behind them and I will. I'm just not going to drop my pants because you and Paul think I should.
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WHAT, I knew the story? You told me that they were cheap because you didn't produce them.

Yes Al you knew the story!!! The story was I got them from Rick Miller and was selling them cheap because I didn't produce them. I was selling them as 100% hets but since I COULDN'T prove that beyond a doubt I was selling them cheap. If you didn't know the story how did you know they came from Rick? The story wasn't complcated and should have been easily understood. I have an idea... you obviously have some type of compensation in mind so why not just tell me what it is you think I need to do. Ron Radloff

Originally Posted by Suncoast Herpetological

This is a damn difficult situation to make a call on but I have one more question from an outsider standpoint.

Al, to the best of your memory, what were the details of the genetics guarantee? Were specific remedies discussed or was it a general "I'll take care of you if they don't prove out" kind of a thing?

John, I gave Al a wriiten receipt complete with guarantee so Al should be able to tell you "ver batim" what it says.
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Also, did Ron address the fact that he was charging less because he did not produce the hets in question?

Yes I did and Al will verify that.
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BTW, the reason I asked about the market price at the time of sale is that I beliebe that would be a major factor in deciding intent. If you purchased the animals for a price substantially below market (50% or more) I would tend to think that they were discounted for the reason that Ron stated. Close to market (10% or 15%) would indicate more of a breeder courtesy discount.

The market price for het albino females was $1200 to $1500 at the time. I sold them for $300.00 each based on my not producing them. Al should also verify this.
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Either way it is a difficult situation that I hope you work out.

I plan to make things right but don't want to be taken advantage of. Ron Radloff

If you bought the hets for a fraction of the cost vs. market value, I do not think it is the same as someone who bought the hets for near market value for the following reasons:

Buyer beware, if you did the research on Hets, the cost (market value) etc., and you see 99% of the het albino females going for $800, and someone is offering the same thing to you for $300, come on...! It is either greed, on the buyers part, thinking maybe they are getting over on the seller, or just plain stupidity, I do not know what else to call it. If you DID NOT do the research prior to the purchase, again, it is the buyers fault THEY GOT TAKEN. It is not their fault that they were sold fake hets, but they got taken because they (buyer) did not do the research prior to the purchase. NOW, am I talking about anyone in particular here on this thread, no, I am not, I am making a general statement reguarding buying het animals off the internet. How many times do you need to hear, "If it is too good to be true..." If you bought the hets because of the price, AND the guarantee, fine. But, a guarantee is only paper without photos, signatures, maybe a second party signature, AND exactly what will happen to trigger the refund, guarantee, and exactly what the refund, guarantee will be. Too me, a guarantee means you are buying from the wrong person. Buy from someone you trust, and with a good name,and you probably do not need a guarantee. If your excuse is that you were a newby at the time of puchase, you may end up with an expensive lesson. It is no excuse though, to not look up the market value of a purchase first. $300 is not that much to me now, but a few years ago, $300 was money I could not throw away. I feel for the people in that position, hopefully the hets prove out. I am starting to ramble,,,,,bailing out, will reread later, and add to the post if I need to/think of anything else.

Al, to the best of your memory, what were the details of the genetics guarantee? Were specific remedies discussed or was it a general "I'll take care of you if they don't prove out" kind of a thing?

I purchased 5 hets in total from Ron, these hets were sold with the guarentee of (word for word from the paperwork)

"I guarantee the above listed ball pythons are 100% het albino. If bred to an albino male they should produce albinos the first year. If bred to a het albino male they may not produce albinos until the second breeding. Gaurantee based on above breedings."

Buying these things was obviously a stupid idea on my part and I knew it was a dumb idea for about a year now. I didn't however, know that the deal was going to be "settled" by me getting a refund and sending the snakes back until today. Ron has told me numerous times since I explained my concern that he would " take care of me".

How many times do you need to hear, "If it is too good to be true..." If you bought the hets because of the price, AND the guarantee, fine.

David, I do understand this. These were the 2nd group of hets I bought over the net. I made the purchase just a week or two after hearing about KS classifieds.

The only thing I was told at the time was to be sure and get paperwork.

Too me, a guarantee means you are buying from the wrong person.

I agree, we decided months ago that all of the hets we produce this season and in years to come will be sold as that, hets. I know what they are as I produced them, if buyers are not comfortable with that then they can shop elsewhere.

In response to the Pied comparison, and the $100 back, and the $45000 vs $50000......my response is, I posted about THIS situation, did not mean for it to be world wide policy on all Heterozygous transactions

Dave