Bill Seeks to Lift Ban on Baby Pet Turtles - FaunaClassifieds
FaunaClassifieds  
  Tired of those Google and InfoLink ads? Upgrade Your Membership!
  Inside FaunaClassifieds » Photo Gallery  
 

Go Back   FaunaClassifieds > Reptile & Amphibian - General Discussion Forums > Herps In The News

Notices

Herps In The News Local or national articles where reptiles or amphibians have made it into the news media. Please cite sources.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-21-2007, 06:35 AM   #1
Clay Davenport
Bill Seeks to Lift Ban on Baby Pet Turtles

I know it's been rumored before, but apparently this bill has passed the Senate.
The biggest problem I have with the lifting of the ban is perfectly explained by the pet shop owner in her reasons they are good pets. The age of the plastic lagoon will return. We all know how stupid those things are, they were bad environments 30 years ago and they're no better today, but here is a pet shop owner promoting them along with the claims they are easy to care for pets.
I have never agreed with the ban, but having it lifted will unfortunately lead to the mistreatment of many baby turtles once again. It's a double edged sword I suppose. I think if they lift the ban on sales they should add a ban on those damn plastic coffins with the palm tree.


Baby turtles as pets may be ready for a comeback. The Food and Drug Administration banned virtually all sales of tiny turtles in 1975 after the animals were linked to salmonella infections in children. But a bill passed by the Senate last week includes an amendment that would lift that ban.

Ruth Hanessian, owner of the Animal Exchange in Rockville, Md., doesn't sell turtles in her pet shop. But if the ban on baby turtles is lifted, Hanessian says she knows they would sell.

"Give me some baby turtles, and I'm back in it in a heartbeat," she says. "I will do it the first day that it's legal."

She says those turtles that are banned — the ones less than 4 inches long that can live nicely in those little plastic turtle lagoons — are perfect starter pets now more than ever.

"Today, with both parents working, we need pets that don't require huge amounts of effort on the part of the parents, that can be successful for the kids," she says.

Still, Hanessian freely acknowledges that there were health problems with the little turtles before the ban.

"I had one friend who was bringing into Maryland 10,000 little turtles a week," she said. "And these were the 2-inch red-eared sliders bred in the lakes in Louisiana, albeit near the sewage outflow, so they were fairly well contaminated by the time they came through."

And in the hands — and sometimes the mouths — of their child owners, the turtles quickly spread the salmonella they carried, often causing severe intestinal illness and sometimes even death. Earlier this year, a four-week-old infant in Florida died of salmonella that was traced to a pet turtle in the family's home.

After a lengthy campaign by public health officials and humane societies, in 1975 the FDA banned the sale of turtles with shells less than 4 inches long — that size was picked so that overly affectionate kids could no longer fit the animals into their mouths.

Stephen Sundlof, who heads the FDA's center for veterinary medicine, says that at the time, the salmonella threat from the baby turtles was serious.

"There were approximately 280,000 cases of salmonellosis in the U.S. each year directly as a result of those turtles," Sundlof says.

After the ban was imposed, salmonella cases traced to reptiles dropped dramatically. Even though bigger turtles are just as likely to carry salmonella as smaller ones, bigger turtles didn't prove as popular as a pet.

"A 4 ½- inch turtle is a mess to take care of," says pet store owner Hanessian. "You're talking roughly $150 of equipment to take care of. It ain't going to fit in this (little turtle) bowl, for one thing."

Meanwhile, back in Louisiana, turtle farmers were working to literally clean up their industry. Working with scientists at Louisiana State University, they've spent the past three decades trying to find ways to minimize, if not eliminate, salmonella from their hatchlings.

The Concordia Turtle Farm in Wildsville, La., is one of those facilities. It now calls itself the world's largest producer of salmonella-free farm-raised turtles. Owner Jesse Evans says the process they use is elaborate. It starts with a bleach water bath for the eggs. Then the eggs are loaded into a custom-made egg-cleaning machine, which he says "does a jam-up job on cleaning the eggs. We don't have a speck of dirt on the egg, it's pearly white when we get through with it."

The process isn't perfect, but it does push down the salmonella infection rate in baby turtles from about 30 percent to less than 1 percent. Given that, says Mark Mitchell, a veterinarian and one of the scientists who helped develop the cleaning system, the outright turtle ban is no longer fair.

"It seems to be a bit of a discriminatory governmental regulation," Mitchell says, "because if we just look at the rest of the captive reptile species, those can also harbor salmonella and serve as a source of exposure to human beings."

But the FDA is not yet convinced the ban should be lifted. The FDA's Sundlof says even turtles that leave the farm clean are unlikely to stay that way — especially if they're fed raw hamburger or chicken.

"The problem here is that... they can pick it up from their environment even if they were totally devoid of salmonella once they were sold," Sundlof says.

And there's a reason that only baby turtles are subject to the outright ban.

"In the case of other reptiles, it's true they are just as likely to carry salmonella as baby turtles, but in most cases they are not marketed to very young children," Sundlof says. And when children get salmonella, they tend to get sicker than adults. Plus, when adults buy reptiles, they're more likely to take precautions, such as handwashing, that can prevent the spread of salmonella.

The House is expected to consider the bill that includes the turtle ban in June. When it does, members could face arguments over things other than salmonella. Some say that allowing the sale of farmed turtles is good because it decreases the number of animals taken from the wild. But many animal-welfare groups say reptiles in general are inappropriate pets, particularly for children.

http://tinyurl.com/33nczy
 
Old 05-21-2007, 08:15 PM   #2
garweft
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay Davenport
Even though bigger turtles are just as likely to carry salmonella as smaller ones, bigger turtles didn't prove as popular as a pet.

"A 4 ½- inch turtle is a mess to take care of," says pet store owner Hanessian. "You're talking roughly $150 of equipment to take care of. It ain't going to fit in this (little turtle) bowl, for one thing."
And little turtles turn into big turtles..... Well they do if they are taken care of.

This could be a great thing for breeders and responsible buyers. But I also see an abundance of unwanted, mistreated, and sick turtles in the future.
 
Old 05-22-2007, 03:03 PM   #3
BryonsBoas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay Davenport
I know it's been rumored before, but apparently this bill has passed the Senate.
The biggest problem I have with the lifting of the ban is perfectly explained by the pet shop owner in her reasons they are good pets. The age of the plastic lagoon will return. We all know how stupid those things are, they were bad environments 30 years ago and they're no better today, but here is a pet shop owner promoting them along with the claims they are easy to care for pets.
I have never agreed with the ban, but having it lifted will unfortunately lead to the mistreatment of many baby turtles once again. It's a double edged sword I suppose. I think if they lift the ban on sales they should add a ban on those damn plastic coffins with the palm tree.


Baby turtles as pets may be ready for a comeback. The Food and Drug Administration banned virtually all sales of tiny turtles in 1975 after the animals were linked to salmonella infections in children. But a bill passed by the Senate last week includes an amendment that would lift that ban.

Ruth Hanessian, owner of the Animal Exchange in Rockville, Md., doesn't sell turtles in her pet shop. But if the ban on baby turtles is lifted, Hanessian says she knows they would sell.

"Give me some baby turtles, and I'm back in it in a heartbeat," she says. "I will do it the first day that it's legal."

She says those turtles that are banned — the ones less than 4 inches long that can live nicely in those little plastic turtle lagoons — are perfect starter pets now more than ever.

"Today, with both parents working, we need pets that don't require huge amounts of effort on the part of the parents, that can be successful for the kids," she says.

Still, Hanessian freely acknowledges that there were health problems with the little turtles before the ban.

"I had one friend who was bringing into Maryland 10,000 little turtles a week," she said. "And these were the 2-inch red-eared sliders bred in the lakes in Louisiana, albeit near the sewage outflow, so they were fairly well contaminated by the time they came through."

And in the hands — and sometimes the mouths — of their child owners, the turtles quickly spread the salmonella they carried, often causing severe intestinal illness and sometimes even death. Earlier this year, a four-week-old infant in Florida died of salmonella that was traced to a pet turtle in the family's home.

After a lengthy campaign by public health officials and humane societies, in 1975 the FDA banned the sale of turtles with shells less than 4 inches long — that size was picked so that overly affectionate kids could no longer fit the animals into their mouths.

Stephen Sundlof, who heads the FDA's center for veterinary medicine, says that at the time, the salmonella threat from the baby turtles was serious.

"There were approximately 280,000 cases of salmonellosis in the U.S. each year directly as a result of those turtles," Sundlof says.

After the ban was imposed, salmonella cases traced to reptiles dropped dramatically. Even though bigger turtles are just as likely to carry salmonella as smaller ones, bigger turtles didn't prove as popular as a pet.

"A 4 ½- inch turtle is a mess to take care of," says pet store owner Hanessian. "You're talking roughly $150 of equipment to take care of. It ain't going to fit in this (little turtle) bowl, for one thing."
Meanwhile, back in Louisiana, turtle farmers were working to literally clean up their industry. Working with scientists at Louisiana State University, they've spent the past three decades trying to find ways to minimize, if not eliminate, salmonella from their hatchlings.

The Concordia Turtle Farm in Wildsville, La., is one of those facilities. It now calls itself the world's largest producer of salmonella-free farm-raised turtles. Owner Jesse Evans says the process they use is elaborate. It starts with a bleach water bath for the eggs. Then the eggs are loaded into a custom-made egg-cleaning machine, which he says "does a jam-up job on cleaning the eggs. We don't have a speck of dirt on the egg, it's pearly white when we get through with it."

The process isn't perfect, but it does push down the salmonella infection rate in baby turtles from about 30 percent to less than 1 percent. Given that, says Mark Mitchell, a veterinarian and one of the scientists who helped develop the cleaning system, the outright turtle ban is no longer fair.

"It seems to be a bit of a discriminatory governmental regulation," Mitchell says, "because if we just look at the rest of the captive reptile species, those can also harbor salmonella and serve as a source of exposure to human beings."

But the FDA is not yet convinced the ban should be lifted. The FDA's Sundlof says even turtles that leave the farm clean are unlikely to stay that way — especially if they're fed raw hamburger or chicken.

"The problem here is that... they can pick it up from their environment even if they were totally devoid of salmonella once they were sold," Sundlof says.

And there's a reason that only baby turtles are subject to the outright ban.

"In the case of other reptiles, it's true they are just as likely to carry salmonella as baby turtles, but in most cases they are not marketed to very young children," Sundlof says. And when children get salmonella, they tend to get sicker than adults. Plus, when adults buy reptiles, they're more likely to take precautions, such as handwashing, that can prevent the spread of salmonella.

The House is expected to consider the bill that includes the turtle ban in June. When it does, members could face arguments over things other than salmonella. Some say that allowing the sale of farmed turtles is good because it decreases the number of animals taken from the wild. But many animal-welfare groups say reptiles in general are inappropriate pets, particularly for children.

http://tinyurl.com/33nczy
I wonder if Ruthie is willing to buy back all those little turtles when ( the ones that live ) make it to a $ 150 set up and a bear to take care of size? Almost reads as if shes promoting the worst side of the hobby. " BUY IT NOW AND FLUSH IT LATER , WE HAVE MORE ".
 
Old 05-22-2007, 09:32 PM   #4
sschind
Turtle Lagoon Ruthie has a pretty nice website

http://www.424pets.com/

It made it pretty easy for me to send her this email

Ruth,

I would suggest that you stick to birds and forget about trying to sell baby turtles. I found your comments about selling baby turtles to be reprehensible and to come from someone who claims to care about animals the way you do is a joke. I am including a link to the website where I found your comments if you care to read them an make an attempt to defend yourself.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=10219485

I don't know where to begin. There are so many things you say that are just wrong on so many levels. I don't know why you seem to think that baby turtles need less care than those over 4" Heat, UVB lighting, adeqaute filtration, these are the the things that make those 4" turtles cost $150.00 to take care babies need these same things, probably even more so than the adults. Turtles are not the indestructible pets you make them out to be. How many of those baby turtles sold in the 60's and early 70's died at a very young age? I'd venture to guess that the mortality rate was well over 90%. They may not have died within a few weeks but certainly I doubt that very many of them made it a year. Why, many reasons of course, but one reason is because of the turtle lagoons. Those plastic death traps that you think are fine for baby turtle should be outlawed. Anyone recomending them for baby turtles should not be allowed to deal with animals period.

The following quote from you is all that needs to be read to see where you are coming from with this issue.

"Give me some baby turtles, and I'm back in it in a heartbeat, I will do it the first day that it's legal."

With pet stores getting bad reputations because they have owners and employees who will sell anything to anyone just to make a buck this comment could be the war cry for those opposed to lifting the ban. I know that if you reply you will tell me how good your store is, and how you do school programs, and how you work with animal rescues and how you have written books etc. etc. None of this means a thing to me because all I see is someone willing to compromise the health of a baby turtle just to make a sale. I certainly would hope that you care for the rest of your animals better than you propose caring for baby turtles. It sickens me to see this attitude coming from someone who makes a living selling animals.


Steven Schindler

We shall see how she chooses to respond, if she chooses to respond.
 
Old 05-22-2007, 09:58 PM   #5
sschind
I have mixed feelings about lifting the ban. For all the same reasons Clay mentioned, I would be in favor of not lifting the ban. However, with baby turtles available to anyone who wants them anyway at most of the swaps and on line (turtlesale.com anyone) it seems a shame that a reputable, legitimate business is prohibited from selling something that others can. It seems as though no one is enforcing the ban anyway so why have it on the books. It keeps honest people honest and the others simply scoff at the law. Even if the ban were lifted I don't know if I would bring baby turtles into my shop. As it is, when parents come in looking for a setup for the baby painted turtle their kid just found they inevitably balk at the price. I think, in the 9 years I have been in business I have had one parent spend the money on a large enough tank, filter, heat lamp, and UVB lighting that it takes to care for a turtle properly. My first words of advice are to let it go where they found it, or move it to the nearest body of water that will support it if they feel releasing it where they found it would be too dangerous (on a road for example) I don't feel like caring for a turtle for 35 years or more because I can't sell it because the buyers refuse to buy the stuff they need to care for it properly. I have a sneaking suspicion that the ban will be lifted. The money for enforcement is not there. The money for prosecution is not there. The success rates for prosecution are probably not that high (people get off on technicalities.) The interest of the public in keeping the ban in place is not there as most people are not aware of the ban in the first place. Apparently the ability to produce salmonella free turtles is there, although whether those provided for the pet trade will be treated properly remains to be seen. It's a lose/lose proposition no matter what happens as far as I am concerned.
 
Old 10-23-2007, 10:36 AM   #6
incuhead2000
This is just great. Now every parent can buy their child a baby turtle to put in a bowl with no proper equipment and send it to certain death. I work in a pet shop and have spoken to many people who still are unaware it is illegal to sell turtles under 4" inches in size. Most customers comment by saying they do not want to spend a lot of money for the turtle or they do not want to spend a lot of money on an expensive terrarium. They just want a turtle to put in a bowl until their child/children are bored with it. To properly care for a baby turtle OR a 4 inch turtle a terrarium for the turtle would be similar in price. Repealing this law only benefits people who want to make money and have no regard for the turtles. I hope the president declines the change on the 4" turtle minimum size.
 

Join now to reply to this thread or open new ones for your questions & comments! FaunaClassifieds.com is the largest online community about Reptile & Amphibians, Snakes, Lizards and number one classifieds service with thousands of ads to look for. Registration is open to everyone and FREE. Click Here to Register!

 
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trades - Odyssey FL 250, 4x4 Truck Parts, Car Lift HerpTiles Trading and Bartering 5 09-16-2008 04:44 PM
Bell Hybino Project lift off! saltwaterreptiles Geckos Discussion Forum 7 01-31-2006 08:43 AM
Bill Black aka 'Bill' of Pennsylvania - Great Guy! uf_g8or Board of Inquiry® 1 01-07-2006 09:44 PM
My site got a face lift! Crested Lady New or Updated Websites and Web Resources 0 08-06-2005 01:27 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:38 AM.







Fauna Top Sites


Powered by vBulletin® Version
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.11825609 seconds with 10 queries
Content copyrighted ©2002-2022, FaunaClassifieds, LLC