Jim Flaherty of the Chameleon Company

If an officer working at a nuclear missile silo accidentally set one off, does that mean he is inherently a "bad" person?? Probably not, but they definitely have no business continuing to serve in the military.

Ignorance is a poor excuse for negligence. It's not a matter of one or two animals escaping, but rather allowing enough animals to escape in order to start a breeding population.

Originally Posted by jishillencik

Ignorance is a poor excuse for negligence.

Seems to work very well for politicians,especially the clown in the White House.

I don't feel like quoting Elizabeth Kinde's long posts, and I know very well that the Florida populations are being "studied". I participated in a survey or two, as well.

But I still see no findings of invasive status.

Originally Posted by jusmebabee

Good ol Florida.
As far as panther chameleons, if only I could find panthers here in Monterey County.
I'm going to sleep tonight and dream of catching chameleons in the wild and not paying insane prices

You do know you can catch Jackson's near Monterrey, right?

Surveys on the established Oustelat's and Veiled chameleon populations only started in 2011 and 2013 respectively, both dates being 10+ years after the species were first documented in Florida. 2013 is the same year that a Panther population was first described. Following that pattern, it will be at least 2023 before a Panther survey is initiated. Does a lack of findings (expected, since it is a newly described species) excuse a lack of concern?

The other chameleon species in both Florida AND Hawai'i are pervasive, prolific and preying on noxious and endangered native species AND adapting to conditions atypical of their native habitat. So folks should just wait ten more years to see if the same thing happens with the Panther population?

imo, seeding non-native species for harvest is a bigger concern than just a single person BOI, but that doesn't mean that the single person BOI isn't warranted.

Originally Posted by Lloyd Heilbrunn

You do know you can catch Jackson's near Monterrey, right?

I've heard but in 28 years like the Banded Ca kingnsake which i have only caught one (Im only refering to Ft. Ord), I have yet to see the elusive Jacksons.
Maybe one day I will

Originally Posted by Agoralyx

imo, seeding non-native species for harvest is a bigger concern than just a single person BOI, but that doesn't mean that the single person BOI isn't warranted.

I might be comprehending this wrong but the way that statement is strung together appears to make the second part of your statement a fact in this case that the person this thread is about did exactly what you stated in the first part of the statement above. He seeded non-native species for the purpose of harvest.

In part in this particular case it was established that some were recaptured and sold wholesale. My understanding is that is the only fact presented. Not a case for intentional "seeding".

To extrapolate further to say this individual established a non-captive colony for the purpose of harvest isn't established in the text I have read.

I don't know if you were implying that here or just making a statement that the first part of your statement was more important but a BOI thread is still warranted for the individual here regardless of how the release happened, in your opinion.

Clarification then. The two statements are neither inclusive, nor exclusive.

The comment about seeding is in reference to the data that I posted earlier (following the request of a number of members looking for scientific data on the subject of invasive chameleon species) wherein the agencies studying the spread of chameleons outside their non-native habitat explicitly reference seeding as occurring and exacerbating the spread of these potentially harmful populations in Florida and Hawai'i.

I believe the seeding that they reference is a concerning practice which should not be dismissed because of a lack of scientific data since the issue is a relatively new one and the data is absent simply because of the novelty of the situation (specifically in relation to chameleons). This comment is more in reply to other thread-goers who seem unconcerned with the growth of the chameleon populations, dismissing them as harmless, or undeserving of concern simply because of a lack of scientific data. That concern is regardless of Flaherty's purported involvement.

To my understanding, this thread was started to bring attention to what appears to be Flaherty's seeding practice, or, at the very least, his support and exploitation of the perpetuation of non-native species. I have no evidence to confirm or deny his involvement, but I feel that if his public statements imply he is perpetuating, or otherwise supporting the seeding of a non-native species, that at least warrants public awareness. The public can then extrapolate whether his documented statements and practices are ones which they want to support, either financially or by word of mouth.

1 The vast majority of people come to the BOI to research buying/ selling activities.
2 Accidental or even intentional "seeding" seems to me to have almost no relevance to buying/ selling activities.
3 When the uproar is not currently supported by any actual evidence the "seeding" is harmful, then there is even less relevance.
4 When you take a run at a guy with a good rep as far as buying/ selling activities goes you should have more than irrelevant PETA type posturing.

Seeding is purposeful/willful. I am not seeing that from what has been provided, but that is the direction some seem to want to push this.