Beware of Jerry Kruse

Originally Posted by Gerards

Can you take a snake to a vet and determine if the animals has IBD or crypto? Can you take a Z to the vet to determine if it has ZD? You are saying that all you have to do is say that you think it has something and that is reason for a refund. I think that it is possible for a snake to go south very quickly and it is possible for it not to be a sellers fault. Jerry is refunding him and there is no proof of what happened. There isn't even a test to say it is ZD. Stu said he talked to Jerry and they are working it out. What else is there to talk about? Stu is getting his full refund and all the comments from the keyboard commandos is what's irrelevant.

Wow Gerard. I was about as impartial as you can get and by your standard I am a "keyboard commando"? I even stated that it was unfair that the seller has to take on this responsibility when something comes up shortly after a sale. What gives?

No ZD cannot be diagnosed past looking at symptoms and using experience to make plausible assumption (done more often then you think in medicine). For IBD you need to do a liver biopsy to look for inclusions. Not possible for many vets and frequently done during necropsy. For crypto you can look for fecal spores (?) but sometimes you need to do stomach scrapes post mortum. Point being that if symptoms arose within days of receipt for either of these typically fatal diseases, why should the buyer put out substantially more time and funds to show they definitively have the disease? If a python starts star gazing with a couple days it is going back to the seller. If a rosy is puking every meal it is going back to the seller. It is unfair but the presumption is that the seller is responsible regardless if the snake actually has the disease in the end.

Originally Posted by Rick Staub

I even stated that it was unfair that the seller has to take on this responsibility when something comes up shortly after a sale.

I should have said "that a seller has to take on this responsibility" since I was not intending to single out Jerry.

Originally Posted by Rick Staub

I should have said "that a seller has to take on this responsibility" since I was not intending to single out Jerry.

That makes more sense. What you said first was that it was unfair to the buyer.

I was not referring to you as the keyboard commando. You have experience with these animals. I was referring to the people who have not dealt with the two people involved or the animals.

With that said, what was the point of your first response? The situation was resolved off the forum.............there's nothing more to say.

Originally Posted by Gerards

That makes more sense. What you said first was that it was unfair to the buyer.

Oops. My error. Meant to say unfair to the seller originally. Can't edit on this forum. Yes I understand why.

"No ZD cannot be diagnosed past looking at symptoms and using experience to make plausible assumption (done more often then you think in medicine). For IBD you need to do a liver biopsy to look for inclusions. Not possible for many vets and frequently done during necropsy. For crypto you can look for fecal spores (?) but sometimes you need to do stomach scrapes post mortum. Point being that if symptoms arose within days of receipt for either of these typically fatal diseases, why should the buyer put out substantially more time and funds to show they definitively have the disease? If a python starts star gazing with a couple days it is going back to the seller. If a rosy is puking every meal it is going back to the seller. It is unfair but the presumption is that the seller is responsible regardless if the snake actually has the disease in the end."

Ok, there is no way to say it's ZD. The snakes are going back to the seller. What's the problem? He wasn't hiding or ignoring him and he's refunding him. What else needs to be said. All that info you gave was good. How is someone's opinion on how fast the refund wasn't done relevant ? I don't even know stu or Jerry. I just think that it's over and the couple people that keep taking shots are the "BAD GUYS". Im sorry if it seemed like I was attacking you. That wasn't what I was trying to do.

Originally Posted by Gerards

"No ZD cannot be diagnosed past looking at symptoms and using experience to make plausible assumption (done more often then you think in medicine). For IBD you need to do a liver biopsy to look for inclusions. Not possible for many vets and frequently done during necropsy. For crypto you can look for fecal spores (?) but sometimes you need to do stomach scrapes post mortum. Point being that if symptoms arose within days of receipt for either of these typically fatal diseases, why should the buyer put out substantially more time and funds to show they definitively have the disease? If a python starts star gazing with a couple days it is going back to the seller. If a rosy is puking every meal it is going back to the seller. It is unfair but the presumption is that the seller is responsible regardless if the snake actually has the disease in the end."

Ok, there is no way to say it's ZD. The snakes are going back to the seller. What's the problem? He wasn't hiding or ignoring him and he's refunding him. What else needs to be said. All that info you gave was good. How is someone's opinion on how fast the refund wasn't done relevant ? I don't even know stu or Jerry. I just think that it's over and the couple people that keep taking shots are the "BAD GUYS". Im sorry if it seemed like I was attacking you. That wasn't what I was trying to do.

I think, perhaps, that some people are concerned about the ANIMALS, not the two participants. Considering how quickly they went downhill in just two weeks, perhaps they believe that Jerry would be in much more of a hurry to get them back before three weeks more time may make their decline irreversible, regardless of the undetermined cause of that decline in health. If Jerry feels he can get them back on the path to good health, wouldn't time be of the essence here?

Originally Posted by WebSlave

I think, perhaps, that some people are concerned about the ANIMALS, not the two participants. Considering how quickly they went downhill in just two weeks, perhaps they believe that Jerry would be in much more of a hurry to get them back before three weeks more time may make their decline irreversible, regardless of the undetermined cause of that decline in health. If Jerry feels he can get them back on the path to good health, wouldn't time be of the essence here?

Hard to argue with that logic, from where I'm sitting.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

I think, perhaps, that some people are concerned about the ANIMALS, not the two participants. Considering how quickly they went downhill in just two weeks, perhaps they believe that Jerry would be in much more of a hurry to get them back before three weeks more time may make their decline irreversible, regardless of the undetermined cause of that decline in health. If Jerry feels he can get them back on the path to good health, wouldn't time be of the essence here?

Yes, I think SOME are. However, thats not what a majority of the post were about. Is time of the essence? What is wrong with them again? The two important things were Stu wanted a refund and Jerry is giving him one. If the animals safety was the most important thing why didn't they get shipped back already? Jerry offered to take them back and start working on them a long time ago. Everyone said that was crazy and that money was more important. So, it seems that the people were concerned about the participants. Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by Gerards

Jerry offered to take them back and start working on them a long time ago. Everyone said that was crazy and that money was more important. So, it seems that the people were concerned about the participants. Just my opinion.

everyone? who said it was crazy and money was more important??? i must have missed that.
see the BOI is concerned about the participants thats WHY its here. quite frankly imho had jerry done what was right in the begining and had stu ship them to him asap with a promise of a refund if thats indeed what he wanted none of this would be here now. stu had the snakes for 2 weeks showed how he kept them and how they looked in 2weeks. jerry has said a refund is gonna happen, and stu is gonna send them back, when where and how that happens is up to stu and jerry. why are your only 5 posts on fauna in this one thread??? you must really like jerry and somehow feel he is right and has been wronged if that is the case .... spit it out.
see i like jerry to and was pretty let down that he didnt handle this before it was brought here. but it appears to now be resolved, time will tell.

Originally Posted by thomas davis

everyone? who said it was crazy and money was more important??? i must have missed that.
see the BOI is concerned about the participants thats WHY its here. quite frankly imho had jerry done what was right in the begining and had stu ship them to him asap with a promise of a refund if thats indeed what he wanted none of this would be here now. stu had the snakes for 2 weeks showed how he kept them and how they looked in 2weeks. jerry has said a refund is gonna happen, and stu is gonna send them back, when where and how that happens is up to stu and jerry. why are your only 5 posts on fauna in this one thread??? you must really like jerry and somehow feel he is right and has been wronged if that is the case .... spit it out.
see i like jerry to and was pretty let down that he didnt handle this before it was brought here. but it appears to now be resolved, time will tell.

I don't know Jerry or Stu. I'm not concerned about their deal. This thread got big fast and the way some people(you being one of them) use this forum is what made me post. This place can and does do good. This was not one of the times where that happened. Stu and Jerry are big boys and they can figure stuff out on their own. To think that you insisting on someone doing something helped is crazy. You can't make someone do something they don't want to do. Stu didn't like Jerry's way and Jerry didn't like Stu's way. Who is wrong there? They are and were the only ones that made something happened. What is left to say that helps the situation? Are you going to sit here and wait until Stu gets paid or else? Will you be ready to TYPE something to make someone do something? Lol! Your fingers must be jacked! The deal is done, if he doesn't pay up it's back on but you and the other after deal made commenters aren't doing anything. Sorry if I hurt you feelings with my first post. I'm trying to stop, I really am!