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Old 01-18-2010, 04:55 PM   #11
KelliH
Ed, did you let Nicole know of the possible dangers that go along with shipping in below freezing weather? I am hoping she is a newbie and just did not realize the danger. If not and she was aware of the risks and demanded that you ship out the snakes regardless, then I just cannot have much sympathy for her about the one snake having an URI. Like I posted before, the low for her location on the date of delivery was -1. Even with two 40 hour heat packs it is foolish to ship in such low temps. Those heat packs have been know to fail.

Ed, you should take care of the vet expenses for anything related to the internal parasites. You should also take care of the sexing mistake in a way that is satisfactory for both parties. However, I would ask to see vet documentation on both of those issues prior to taking further action if I was you Ed.
 
Old 01-18-2010, 04:58 PM   #12
Montoya
Vets can get the sex wrong, I would get a second opinion by popping it. I think Ed should cover the fecal and treatment for the parasite but you should be responsible for the URI treatment. If the temp was that low you should have waited for a warm spell before requesting shipping. This is just a bad situation all the way around, I hope the snake gets better. Good luck with him/her.
 
Old 01-18-2010, 05:40 PM   #13
deborahbroadus
If I were the OP, I would just pop or have someone else pop the snake and take a picture of the hemes. That should put that one matter to rest.

If she does not know how to pop, perhaps she can find someone in her area that does and take a picture (being sure to get pictures of the identification markings also).
 
Old 01-18-2010, 06:09 PM   #14
AaronSerio
As already stated Nicole, you requested a particular day for shipping. You only came back to Ed about his shipping methods (the heat packs) and the weather after you found out the snake had a URI. In the first couple of e-mails you sent him you ONLY make mention about the FedEx driver, not Ed's shipping methods.

Secondly, what ever happened to proper quarantine? You repeatedly make mention that you bought this snake to breed THIS season with a female already going through a cycle. Luckily, you took this snake to a vet and had it diagnosed with some internal parasites. Wouldn't that be fun to add to your breeding stock female!
 
Old 01-18-2010, 06:35 PM   #15
rusticreptiles
Excuse me, but he has been given several days to at least reply to me with how he intends to resolve this. I have heard nothing.

I do appreciate the feedback from everyone since I'm not sure how to approach this when I can't get the person to reply to me. I post on here and NOW he is willing to contact me? Which he still has yet to do.

As far as his packaging, it was the same as the package I received in the fall getting three corn snakes. The insulation was standard, nothing additional unless you count the crumpled newspaper. The heat packs were two very small hand warmers. He keeps telling me they were the 40 hour heaters. I could be incorrect, I have just never seen a 40 hour pack that tiny. Like I said, I am new at this and do not pretend to know everything.

And again he says IF the animal is missexed. There is no IF I gave him documentation from the veterinarian. The phone number is on the receipts. You may call him an inquire, this is most definately a female. 3 subcaudal scales, no more.

Curious as to why the snake in my posession has to be declared healthy when the parasites came from your end, and the URI could have been prevented by waiting to ship. I foolishly assumed that you being the shipper would know what a safe and unsafe temp was. Had I known they could and did arrive in the condition they did I would have held off. I've contacted several other breeders about the fact that the two packs were ice cold, and that the external temps of the snakes a half hour after receiving them and warming them was 52 degrees. They have ALL said no matter the temps, something was obviously wrong in the way it was shipped or packed. Why did you not mention "hey, it's pretty friggin cold out, I'm concerned that the snakes might be put at risk" I would have waited! You are the professional here and ultimately responsible for the animals in your care.

So again, I can only go with the information I have. I am not asking for you to pay my vet bills, I am asking for you to help me in this matter and come to arrangement that we both can agree on, yet you still have not contacted me.

I was terrified when I searched your name on here and found the majority of the posts are negative. I felt that I needed to get it out in the open in order for you to acknowledge me.

I'm sorry if it was premature, but honestly I am not getting a good vibe in how you conduct business. I don't wish to cause drama, I'm just trying to get you to respond to me and work with me.

Thank you!
 
Old 01-18-2010, 06:40 PM   #16
rusticreptiles
No, parents genetics were never given. And no, he never mentioned the weather conditions being a conern. I was plain stupid on that part. I had purchased snakes from Kathy Love in the fall, but temperature was never brought up because I'm assuming it wasn't a concern.

This was my second mail order purchase of a reptile. So in my mind, if it's dangerous, you wouldn't do it.
 
Old 01-18-2010, 06:50 PM   #17
rusticreptiles
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSerio View Post
As already stated Nicole, you requested a particular day for shipping. You only came back to Ed about his shipping methods (the heat packs) and the weather after you found out the snake had a URI. In the first couple of e-mails you sent him you ONLY make mention about the FedEx driver, not Ed's shipping methods.

Secondly, what ever happened to proper quarantine? You repeatedly make mention that you bought this snake to breed THIS season with a female already going through a cycle. Luckily, you took this snake to a vet and had it diagnosed with some internal parasites. Wouldn't that be fun to add to your breeding stock female!
I requested the day AFTER he said he could ship right away. Again, if he had said, in my experience it is unsafe or unwise to ship in these temps, I would have been fine to hold off if he would be willing to hold it.

The snake IS in quarantine and would have been so for 60 days. A fecal would have been performed. If parasites were the only thing wrong I would not have even bothered him. I may have said a "btw these snakes have parasites, you may want to run a test" I had just started cooling my female when I found out that the male would be arriving, so by the time he was out of quarantine I could have begun introducing them.

In my first emails I assumed that it was the dumb fed ex drivers fault. Again, very new at this and assumed that the shipper wouldn't have done anything wrong. In talking with others about what happened with my snakes, the possibility of incorrect shipping methods came up. Again, most said they would refuse to ship under 30 degrees.
 
Old 01-18-2010, 06:52 PM   #18
HyderHouseHerps
I think you should call and talk to him on the phone. There's obviously a misunderstanding here considering he's been responding to you up until 2 days ago which was the beginning of a weekend (todays, the 18th, that wouldve been the email you recieved on the 16th) and you think he's avoiding you. A bad vibe is not a valid reason to post on the BOI.
When you order animals off the internet/mail order you take a lot more risks than when you buy local. Were you aware of this? I'm not saying it's right, just that you need to take some responsibility for those animals being shipped in cold weather. Its basic common sense that we are approaching the coldest days of the year in the US and you're having cold blooded animals shipped to you. The seller should also be warning you of this or at least make SURE you want to risk it.
Again, without photos of the packaging, it's hard to really say what he used for a heat source but 40 hour heat packs probably wouldn't have been enough in this cold weather anyways.
As far as missexing, whether the vet was right or not, it's documented by a vet so you should be able to return it for a full refund. And hopefully you guys can work it out. I'd try to find a phone number as you're obviously looking for a speedy response to your issues and he's obviously got some responsibilities to take care of with you.
 
Old 01-18-2010, 07:03 PM   #19
rusticreptiles
I'm sorry, I'm trying to answer everyones comments, and questions and I may be going about this the wrong way.

Eds reply to me was on the 15th, so it's been three days. He had no trouble communicating with me before, so if I was rushing things, I was trying to light a fire under his butt to get him to talk with me.

Now about popping. I have been told (again, I'm new so please bear with me), that popping anything older than a hatchling can be dangerous. Now I have no clue as to the age of this snake or background, if it was born there or not. But it is currently 460 grams, and if it is indeed safe, then I will have someone pop it and provide photographic evidence. I just don't see how myself, the vet, and his tech who has 22 ball pythons that she has confirmed all their genders with this vet, can be wrong with probing. The vet told me today that Ed is free to call and discuss it with him.

I think that is everything, if not, bring it to my attention and I will answer.
 
Old 01-18-2010, 07:03 PM   #20
spyder79
Well if Ed is worried about that reputation that has been dragged through the mud on here repeatedly possibly being repaired a small bit he will respond to you either on here or directly and come up with a resolution that both parties agree on. The reason a second opinion is suggested on sexing is that vets dont always know what they are looking for. And popping a snake is the best way to sex. If you dont know how to do it then you need to find someone that can.
 

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