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Old 10-10-2012, 02:11 AM   #131
adder
Snakehandler has made a series of false statements, which need correcting!
1 - He wrote:
"We have never needed such animals and have never had a bite in a display or within our own collection which includes Pseudonaja textilis, Oxyuranus, and many other native Australian venomous snakes." is factually incorrect.
Fact is the company has had a number of serious potentially life-threatening bites, including Paul Fisher (staff) who was rushed to hospital for a Brown snake bite and Simon Watharow former director of the business who had to have a load of tiger snake anti-venom to survive a bite.
2- Fact is, company is in breach of sect 32 of the OH and S Act 2004 every time it displays snakes with venom glands intact in Victoria.
By law in Australia "Education about our venomous animals must be done safely" and with no risk to anyone.
All the best
 
Old 10-15-2012, 10:27 AM   #132
hadenglock
Quote:
Originally Posted by adder View Post
Snakehandler has made a series of false statements, which need correcting!
1 - He wrote:
"We have never needed such animals and have never had a bite in a display or within our own collection which includes Pseudonaja textilis, Oxyuranus, and many other native Australian venomous snakes." is factually incorrect.
Fact is the company has had a number of serious potentially life-threatening bites, including Paul Fisher (staff) who was rushed to hospital for a Brown snake bite and Simon Watharow former director of the business who had to have a load of tiger snake anti-venom to survive a bite.
2- Fact is, company is in breach of sect 32 of the OH and S Act 2004 every time it displays snakes with venom glands intact in Victoria.
By law in Australia "Education about our venomous animals must be done safely" and with no risk to anyone.
All the best
Regardless of all of this, do you or do you not free handle venomous (or venomoids) during one of your events?
 
Old 10-15-2012, 05:33 PM   #133
adder
Haden, sounds like a troll question.
Anyone who puts the welfare of their snakes first free handles instead of using metal sticks to attack snakes.
It would be patently stupid not to free handle venomoids.
All potential questions about venomoids and ours in particular are answered at the venomoid snake FAQ here
http://www.smuggled.com/VenFAQ1.htm
and note that we have gravid ones here at the moment.
 
Old 10-15-2012, 06:58 PM   #134
Fangthane
Quote:
Originally Posted by adder View Post
Anyone who puts the welfare of their snakes first free handles instead of using metal sticks to attack snakes.
It would be patently stupid not to free handle venomoids.
Well, if you're using a hook to "attack" a snake, I think you're going about it the wrong way. I suspect that I'll regret the asking, but how, exactly, did you come to the conclusion that using a hook is harmful? It comes off as little more than a lame justification for taking needless risk while "showing off". Aside from some perceived cool factor, I don't see how freehandling benefits the keeper, or the snake.
 
Old 10-15-2012, 11:09 PM   #135
adder
Well Apexpredatorboids, I am sure you don't use a hook to handle your ball pythons?
Why?
They prefer to be handled by hand!
Same for all other snakes.

Now taking things further, there are many good reasons that venomoids are sensible for wildlife displays, not the least being public safety and a legal requirement to guarantee public safety.
You and other posters here may think it's OK to play Russian Roulette with public safety in venomous snake shows, as does an inexperienced business rival who does this often and has had to rush staff to hospital for venomous snake bite as a result.
We don't regard such risk as acceptable or legal!

And save me the lame argument about experts being able to handle venomous snakes without being bitten. Even the best handlers make mistakes. If you can, try asking Luke Yeomans or Aleta Stacey about how they were able to avoid bites and the like from venomous creatures due to their expertise.

Bye for now!
 
Old 10-16-2012, 12:45 AM   #136
Fangthane
Quote:
Originally Posted by adder View Post
Well Apexpredatorboids, I am sure you don't use a hook to handle your ball pythons?
Why?
They prefer to be handled by hand!
Same for all other snakes.
I have zero interest in ball pythons, but nice try. I freehandled my non-venomous because the amount of risk involved with their handling didn't necessitate the use of tools. Which is an absolute apples to oranges comparison, when the subject is the proper handling of hots.

Are you honestly trying to make the case that they "prefer" any handling, period, and that it makes any discernible difference to them whether it's flesh or a metal implement? We must have our very own snake whisperer, right here on Fauna, and didn't even know it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adder
...you are against snake's welfare and I am for it...
Yeah, ok..

My previous comments were purely in regard to, not only your cavalier attitude about endorsing practices which may lead to people thinking it's a good idea to put themselves in needless danger, by freehandling hots, but also concerning what I believe to be your extremely contrived and self-serving rationale behind the endorsement. I don't have a dog in the void vs. hot fight, I just get a kick out of some of the rationalizations.

I think it's a bit disingenuos to claim such concern for a snake's welfare, after forcing it to endure surgery and putting it in such stressful situations as being paraded in front of a crowd. Mutilation=concern? What were you saying about a "lame argument"..?
 
Old 10-16-2012, 12:49 AM   #137
Tim Cole
I have been putting on Snake Safety Classes for over 20 years with venomous snakes that are safely contained!

They are in high visibility acrylic towers which make it easy for attendees to view them clearly and safely with no need to perform acts of cruelty.

Can't take the heat?

Get out of the kitchen!
 
Old 10-16-2012, 01:39 AM   #138
adder
Tim, how are you?
I don't think forum rules would allow me to post what others have said about your alleged reptile education shows and methods you use to move snakes about.
OK, you don't think metal tongs are cruel?
I'm sure the snakes do!
All the best
 
Old 10-16-2012, 02:23 PM   #139
Mimmieux
Quote:
Originally Posted by adder View Post
OK, you don't think metal tongs are cruel?
I'm sure the snakes do!
All the best
Was lurking about this thread for a while and I really need to say something about this.
You neglect the fact that reptiles do not want to be handled AT ALL. Tongs or hands. You could even open up a debate about whether or not reptiles experience emotions or not, because there is plenty of evidence on the latter. They tolerate it if they were raised to become used to being lifted into the air by a giant monster.
I'm quite sure the only thing the snake "wants" is to be left alone in its hide until it's dinner time or breeding season.
 
Old 10-16-2012, 05:49 PM   #140
adder
Mimmiex, your comment
"You neglect the fact that reptiles do not want to be handled AT ALL." is a disingenius way to change the subject when you have lost an argument and been unable to show that venomoids are better off being free handled than their tong handled venomous peers.
No one here has argued that snakes like to be handled, however only an idiot would claim a snake prefers to be handled with sticks than free handled by hand.
Furthermore, and you may not be aware of this, but regularly free handled snakes are in fact quite happy being handled gently by people for long periods due to the thermnal properties of the handlers, being close to the preferred temperature of of the snake.
Metal sticks lack these properties.
All the best
 

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