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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

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Old 09-23-2017, 08:12 PM   #11
Johns Orange Dragons
Thanks so much for your harsh replies! We were referring to their perfect environment that we had given her which we followed to a tee from all of the many caresheets online. Even if she was quarantined and taken to a vet, a vet would have confirmed that she had a health issue due to Fred Kick's improper care, not ours.
 
Old 09-23-2017, 08:33 PM   #12
Donald C
The uro appears to have been sold to you with a health problem, which should never have happened. But, you were the one that did nothing to correct that in 6 months of it being in your care. And you risked contaminating your other animals with a lack of quarantine.

For me at least, your lapse in care and attention is as inexcusable as that of selling the animal when it was sick.
 
Old 09-23-2017, 09:23 PM   #13
Johns Orange Dragons
We're here to warn the public that Fred Kick is selling sick animals. In our decades of experience, 95% of the pets we've purchased never needed to be quarantined in their own enclosure or brought to a vet and most of them have lived for 12-15 years. And the ones that didn't make it in the beginning was because the seller sold us a sick animal. We have brought the sick ones to "reptile" vets before here on Long Island (Monaco, Hoefer, Freilicher, Rose Brothers, etc.), regardless of what stage their illness was at and they were ALL unsuccessful in saving them every time, so we're not a fan of vets. In fact try this experiment: Go to a reptile show and ask all the consumers if they first quarantine their new pets in a completely separate enclosure and/or bring them to a vet and you'll find that the majority does not and their pets have lived a healthy long time. We realize this web site is full of perfectionists, so we couldn't really care less about your opinions. Good luck buying a pet from Kicks Balls and let us know if it lives!
 
Old 09-23-2017, 09:38 PM   #14
Donald C
To be perfectly honest, I have bought a few animals from them. All are counted among the living. And I know they are all healthy because I quarantined them and kept a very close eye on them for the duration of that time.

I have had a situation like yours in the past. Sick animal (a heavy parasite load on a cbb animal) sold by flipper. The main difference... a quarantine period and an experienced herp vet. The animal is still alive and healthy.
 
Old 09-23-2017, 09:52 PM   #15
Pasodama
I have a friend who has purchased some CB Ball Pythons, from Kicks, on a few occasions. Those animals arrived beautiful and have been healthy (have to admit that it surprised me).
Maybe the Kicks CB Ball Pythons are a better bet, than their other animals, or perhaps my friend has just experienced some great luck.

That aside, Kicks does have a poor reputation. Most notably, regardless of anything else, is when it comes to their WC animals.
Kicks immediately, or virtually immediately, flip their WC animals. They certainly do not keep these animals long enough to ensure they are healthy &/or to correct any health issues.
I would *Never* purchase a WC animal, from Kicks, and, actually, I simply avoid them regardless of whether, or not, an animal is CB or WC (personal choice).

I have purchased WC, and LTC, animals, here or there, over the years (none from Kicks).
Any time I do so, or have done so, these animals are always quarantined (even new CB animals should be), for a time, and, no matter what a seller tells me (even those with a good rep), I treat them as though they are fresh captures (with the necessary care) ... including treatment for parasites, etc., etc. Also, a close eye is kept on them.
To date, I have never lost a WC animal.<knock on wood>

I do not approve of Kicks practices with WC animals, do not care for how they have handled some negative situations with customers, and it is ~wrong~ for them to sell any ill animals.
As an aside, I would also fault Kick's for not disclosing if an animal is WC ... even though some species are known, in the marketplace, to be entirely, or almost entirely, made up of WC individuals.

However, you (OP) also did this poor Uro gal a huge disservice.
She was not monitored very well, was not quarantined, and was, basically, neglected (esp. her health/condition, to the point that it was too late to save her) ... even if living conditions (temps, etc.) were appropriate, or spot on, for the species.

In this case, with the time that has gone by (and where you lacked), I do not feel the Kicks owe you anything. Although it would be nice to offer you something. Which, from what you wrote, I guess they did offer something ... even if not as much as may have been hoped for.

Hopefully, you will have learned from your mistakes.
Also, that, whenever possible, check on the reputation, of a seller, prior to purchase ... especially where time is not of the essence due to an animal being rather common in the hobby/marketplace.

~~~~
 
Old 09-23-2017, 09:55 PM   #16
Helenthereef
Quote:
Originally Posted by elena View Post
. (You should test your other animals now)

Whatever the ins and out of the case, if it was due to parasites, I would certainly be testing the other 2 animals now in case they picked said parasites up during their time caged together. Hope they are OK.
 
Old 09-23-2017, 10:06 PM   #17
Pasodama
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johns Orange Dragons View Post
And the ones that didn't make it in the beginning was because the seller sold us a sick animal. We have brought the sick ones to "reptile" vets before here on Long Island (Monaco, Hoefer, Freilicher, Rose Brothers, etc.), regardless of what stage their illness was at and they were ALL unsuccessful in saving them every time, so we're not a fan of vets.
Yes, it is true that some ill, or injured, animals perish despite all the best care in the world ... regardless if a vet is involved.
However, there are many success stories as well.

Also, it can be very critical to catch a problem early on and for that animal to receive the care it needs asap.

~~~~
 
Old 09-23-2017, 10:19 PM   #18
Pasodama
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helenthereef View Post

Whatever the ins and out of the case, if it was due to parasites, I would certainly be testing the other 2 animals now in case they picked said parasites up during their time caged together. Hope they are OK.


Also, not only can an ill, or parasite loaded, animal affect other cage mates, the ill animal can worsen faster via the further stress it feels when caged with others.

~~~~
 
Old 09-24-2017, 12:43 AM   #19
AndyUltimateReptiles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasodama View Post


Also, not only can an ill, or parasite loaded, animal affect other cage mates, the ill animal can worsen faster via the further stress it feels when caged with others.

~~~~
Especially with lizards. Intimidation even if the animals aren't picking on each other physically can play a huge role. I also noticed in an earlier post that the basking temp was only 110? I never lose uros, even WC, and my basking spots are much higher.

Either way, admitting you don't check on the animals often and don't quarantine animals that you know are WC imports won't help the position. If the animal was sold as an import in whatever condition it is in, you have to take due diligence in either asking if the animal was treated and for what, or just proactively do it yourself. In a perfect world, every animal would be treated before being sold, but unless its listed as treated and is WC, have to assume it isn't.

Sorry for your loss.
 
Old 09-24-2017, 01:36 AM   #20
Chris Kennard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johns Orange Dragons View Post
We're here to warn the public that Fred Kick is selling sick animals. In our decades of experience, 95% of the pets we've purchased never needed to be quarantined in their own enclosure or brought to a vet and most of them have lived for 12-15 years. And the ones that didn't make it in the beginning was because the seller sold us a sick animal. We have brought the sick ones to "reptile" vets before here on Long Island (Monaco, Hoefer, Freilicher, Rose Brothers, etc.), regardless of what stage their illness was at and they were ALL unsuccessful in saving them every time, so we're not a fan of vets. In fact try this experiment: Go to a reptile show and ask all the consumers if they first quarantine their new pets in a completely separate enclosure and/or bring them to a vet and you'll find that the majority does not and their pets have lived a healthy long time. We realize this web site is full of perfectionists, so we couldn't really care less about your opinions. Good luck buying a pet from Kicks Balls and let us know if it lives!
I highly doubt you'll get any sales from anyone viewing your posts here.
 

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