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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

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Old 09-26-2017, 12:03 PM   #31
Mike Schultz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Bradley View Post
The Kicks can, and should, be held responsible because THEY KNOWINGLY SELL AND/OR FLIP ANIMALS IN ABSOLUTELY CRAPPY CONDITION with no apparent ill affects to their bottom line as the hobby community continues to support them (at least to the degree that they are still in business). The OP certainly has to take a hard look at how they intake, quarantine, and insure health and welfare for their captives but somehow creating equivalency in responsibility is mind boggling (but does seem to be en vogue for the country currently).
The animal was in great shape when purchased. 6 months later it was emaciated and on death's door. Did the kicks use their psychic screw-you-beams to telepathically compel this idiot to neglect their lizard for that long?
 
Old 09-26-2017, 12:11 PM   #32
Morticia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Schultz View Post
I'm guessing you didn't really read much of the thread yet? regardless of past incidents, I cannot imagine how the kicks can be held responsible in this situation....
This person's negligence aside, it isn't new territory for them.
 
Old 09-26-2017, 12:43 PM   #33
Skyefoxx
While I believe it should be noted that the animal was likely flipped and the time wasn't taken to ensure it was healthy before it was sold, I also believe blaming them in this case just because 'it isn't new territory for them' doesn't address the major problems in this thread. The animal would have at least had a fighting chance if it were cared for properly. 6 months after it was sold is a really long reach to blame them for her death especially since it doesn't appear that we know what illness the animal had and cannot confirm it was an underlying condition she had when she was purchased.

Quote:
Did the kicks use their psychic screw-you-beams to telepathically compel this idiot to neglect their lizard for that long?
<- Also this seriously made my afternoon, hah!!
 
Old 09-26-2017, 04:46 PM   #34
Snake-Queen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morticia View Post
This person's negligence aside, it isn't new territory for them.
Regardless, the OP dropped the ball on this one. If they had been better keepers, they would've noticed the decline sooner and been able address the cause(s). Had they caught the decline sooner, I would be on board for them getting a refund or some other reparations.

Six months is a long time to have an animal in your care, have it die and expect the seller to do something; even degenerate sellers like the Kicks.

There is several points against the buyer in this case:
1. Lack of quarantine.
2. Improper housing.
3. Inattention to animals in their care.
4. The time that passed before a problem was noticed.
5. Lack of a vet visit.
6. The fact that it died after six months in their care.
 
Old 09-26-2017, 04:53 PM   #35
Mike Schultz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake-Queen View Post
Regardless, the OP dropped the ball on this one. If they had been better keepers, they would've noticed the decline sooner and been able address the cause(s). Had they caught the decline sooner, I would be on board for them getting a refund or some other reparations.
.
I'm willing to bet there wouldn't have been a decline in the first place had proper basic import care guidelines been followed
 
Old 09-26-2017, 04:55 PM   #36
Phil Bradley
I completely agree that the OP needs to focus on drastically upgrading their husbandry practices however I still don't get why the near lack of ANY meaningful husbandry and/or preventative medicine on the part of the seller for his flipped WC animals is given a pass by many of you? I find both parties to be at fault however only one of them will continue to be selling sh1t animals in volume.
 
Old 09-26-2017, 05:11 PM   #37
Snake-Queen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Bradley View Post
I completely agree that the OP needs to focus on drastically upgrading their husbandry practices however I still don't get why the near lack of ANY meaningful husbandry and/or preventative medicine on the part of the seller for his flipped WC animals is given a pass by many of you? I find both parties to be at fault however only one of them will continue to be selling s*** animals in volume.
There is a problem with your statement, the animal was fat and healthy when purchased. Whether or not the Kicks treated the animal is immaterial to this case, because the buyer didn't follow through with basic imported animal care. When a known import is purchased, you should always have a vet check it and do a fecal, that was not done in this case. There is no proof that the Kicks sold a sick animal or proof as to the cause of death. It could have starved to death because the other 2 uros were bullying it and not allowing it to eat.

As much as I dislike the Kicks and their practices, (I pains me to say this) the death of the uros was not their fault. Yes, they are flipper who who will continue to sell as long as there is buyers.
 
Old 09-26-2017, 05:12 PM   #38
Snake-Queen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Schultz View Post
I'm willing to bet there wouldn't have been a decline in the first place had proper basic import care guidelines been followed
I agree.
 
Old 09-26-2017, 08:41 PM   #39
bcr229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Bradley View Post
I completely agree that the OP needs to focus on drastically upgrading their husbandry practices however I still don't get why the near lack of ANY meaningful husbandry and/or preventative medicine on the part of the seller for his flipped WC animals is given a pass by many of you? I find both parties to be at fault however only one of them will continue to be selling sh1t animals in volume.
I don't give either a pass. The OP by his own admission is not a newbie to the hobby and claims to have decades of experience, yet hasn't learned basic concepts like quarantine, not co-habbing animals, researching sellers before purchasing an animal, and understanding industry practices for buying and selling the species he does keep. Even if the OP didn't know about the BOI a simple Google search on the Kicks shows they should be avoided.

If the OP is still reading this thread here's some advice: most sellers of WC critters do not treat for internal parasites. Always ask if an animal is WC versus CBB. If the animal is freshly WC then understand that you are buying a vet bill, which is why they cost so much less than CB or long-term captive critters.
 
Old 09-26-2017, 09:35 PM   #40
CovetedConstrictors
Agreed, however they did misrepresent WC animals as CBB in their sale to me at Daytona. I specifically asked. I have no problem treating animals, WC or otherwise but it was dishonest and if they've done it with me I can't imagine it's an isolated case.
 

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