Adam Wysocki 8 Ball Pythons

Originally Posted by monkeywrench133

So, you took absolutely no steps to diagnose, treat, or ease this animal's suffering. Essentially, you just watched it die.

And then when it did die, it wasn't worth it to you to do a necropsy to find out why it died.

At best, that's neglect. At worst, animal abuse.

But Adam is the bad guy because he didn't return a phone call??

Seems to me that you have your priorities backwards.

Suffering?? In where did it state that the animal was suffering?? Beside's the movement of the Ball Python being off and a little weird She ate and deficated fine.. I wasnt worried about her health at the time Via She was eating and deficating fine So I didn't really didn't think it was a health issue
I was thinking maybe she was the offspring of a Spider with a bad Wobble to a Normal Via the way she moved as I've seen that in some normals that were offspring of a Spider with a bad wobble...

If for one moment I thought that there was a health issue I would of been at the Vets office But I didnt think it was a health issue

No I guess Im the Bad the Guy in this situation your absolutly right

Becuase I didnt get a necropsy to find out why the Bp Died Honestly Take this how you will But a necropsy isn't going to bring back her..
I've done deals with Adam before this and everything went smoothly I didnt think for a second he would sell a sick animal nor can I say that he did becuase No I didnt get a necropsy Should I have got a necropsy maybe I should have was it wrong for me not to get a necropsy well I guess that would vary from person to person. So you mean to tell me that everytime you have an animal pass away you have a necropsy preformed??

Originally Posted by cobraman1

lol. seriously? It was Never implied by the OP. It was suggested by other people that replied to the thread. The OP has made it clear that He isnt even blaming adam for the health of the snake. He just wants people to know that the seller cant seem to answer calls or emails.

Thank You Im glad to see someone understands what Im saying

Originally Posted by monkeywrench133

So, you took absolutely no steps to diagnose, treat, or ease this animal's suffering. Essentially, you just watched it die.

And then when it did die, it wasn't worth it to you to do a necropsy to find out why it died.

At best, that's neglect. At worst, animal abuse.

But Adam is the bad guy because he didn't return a phone call??

Seems to me that you have your priorities backwards.

Please read the original post. You are not being a part of the answer, you are making this a bigger problem than what it really is. You are posting up accusations of neglect and/or animal abuse... what is that going to accomplish? No, the OP never insinuated or said that the BP has IBD... that was other people mentioning that it MIGHT have had it. Please, go re read the first post in this thread. All the OP wants is a phone call/email/facebook back from the dude. So please, if you just feel like getting your jollies on by egging on the OP, that's fine, at least do it without accusations... and if you get your jollies off by doing this, then maybe your priorities are backwards.

I actually agree with the OP, why would you spend the money to get a necropsy if the guy isn't returning phone calls/emails/facebooks? What would the point be? Sure, you would be able to prove that the snake died of a certain cause, and if that certain cause was due to the original owner... but what good would that do if the original owner/seller won't return a message?

With the exception of the last line of his post, Erin made some very good points. I don't take every animal I get to the vet, nor would I automatically do a necropsy upon death.....however, if I received an animal displaying unusual symptoms, I'm more likely to discuss it with my vet than to rationalize those symptoms as benign and harmless. If said animal were to die in a short amount of time, without displaying additional symptoms which might give reasonable explanation for the death, I would be concerned enough about my other animals to consider a necropsy.
That said, I know nothing of the OPs set up or quarantine practices. Ultimately, it is his decision on how to deal with issues that arise in his animals -whether in terms of veterinary care or post mortem examination....however, if he is selling animals (or offering them as collateral), then he should be as concerned about the potential risk to others as to whatever animals he keeps.
None of that has anything to do with Adam not responding to the OP, but that doesn't mean people aren't going to make the observations.

As far as Adam - I don't know him. It sounds as if he's moved away from reptile keeping, and it certainly isn't uncommon to find that once people do that, they make a clean break. People can make all manner of assumptions of what that means, but the OP is simply posting his information for people to do with what they will.

Some babies simply do not thrive. Period. I never sell hatchlings that are only a few weeks old with only a couple meals in them due to just this. I had a pretty serious wobbler myself this year which I did not sell and will not.

Another theory according to the symptoms is CSS and the snake can either recover or quickly die.

In my opinion, if the animal showed no signs of odd movement or behaviour when you got it, or within a day of having it home, then Adam would probably not have seen anything wrong with it either. Making him not responsible.

Most breeders never guarantee health for Amy period of time once the animal is at it's new home. There is no way to know if it's being kept properly with the right temps etc.. I'm not saying the OP was at fault but I am saying that I highly doubt Adam had any idea the snake was sick. If it was in fact already sick. Any number of things could have caused it to go downhill fast once it was in the OPs possession.

Bad food? Temperature spike? Chemicals? Mite spray?

Who knows, but Adam is not in business anymore and just like if Walmart went out of business, you can't get it resolved now. It's bad that he has a history of not contacting people but that doesn't mean he is a bad guy or sells sick snakes.

You probably won't get a hold of him so continuing to tarnish his name is pointless.

"That said, I know nothing of the OPs set up or quarantine practices. Ultimately, it is his decision on how to deal with issues that arise in his animals -whether in terms of veterinary care or post mortem examination....however, if he is selling animals (or offering them as collateral), then he should be as concerned about the potential risk to others as to whatever animals he keeps."

Opposite sides of the house new additions dont make it into the room until after 60 days of having them in quarantine

Well just to be stated as to clear the confusion . Yes Adam was at the Hamburg Show in October , Yes he was selling some animals .
He is in fact out of the business ,told to me directly from him ..
He has been slowly getting out of reptile business for past 1-2 years .
Hes only finishing off the shows that have already been paid for in advanced .
So if you see him at a show then its because the table(s) were already paid for ahead of time .
He does have a few remaining animals left hes trying to sell off and that's why he's still selling animals at shows , just to clear out the remainder of his collection .

Does Adam have a S/N on here?

8BallPythons

Originally Posted by TheVipersHouse

Well just to be stated as to clear the confusion . Yes Adam was at the Hamburg Show in October , Yes he was selling some animals .
He is in fact out of the business ,told to me directly from him ..
He has been slowly getting out of reptile business for past 1-2 years .
Hes only finishing off the shows that have already been paid for in advanced .
So if you see him at a show then its because the table(s) were already paid for ahead of time .
He does have a few remaining animals left hes trying to sell off and that's why he's still selling animals at shows , just to clear out the remainder of his collection .

If he's still selling animals at shows Then wouldn't it be natural that he return emails & Phone calls on the animals he's selling/sold? Becuase he's getting out not out even when your out of the Industry if you sold a snake 2 days before hand and something happens the buyers going to expect you to answer their calls/emails
So I guess since he's getting out of the Industry If he sells a BumbleBee, Pied, Or a BEL that he has and something happens its ok if he doesn't call nor email you back becuse he's getting out or he's out of the industry??
I Understand that a few of you have Ties to Adam for various reasons and for that I can see why things are trying to be shifted and Blame be placed on me

I really enjoy this comment
"Most breeders never guarantee health for Amy period of time once the animal is at it's new home. There is no way to know if it's being kept properly with the right temps etc.. I'm not saying the OP was at fault but I am saying that I highly doubt Adam had any idea the snake was sick. If it was in fact already sick. Any number of things could have caused it to go downhill fast once it was in the OPs possession.

Bad food? Temperature spike? Chemicals? Mite spray?"

Ummm Last time I checked most breeder's do offer some sort of Health Guarantee wether its 3 days or 7 Most have a health guarantee
Badd Food I dont think so since the others were eating the same Rats from the same bag from the same source... the temps never fall below 87-86 and never go above 94-95 ( Unless Im cycling females for breeding)
Chemicals Not a chemical near the tanks Mite Spray for what??? None of the animals in my collection have mites? So thats out

What I belive is the problem here is people that back Adam for various reasons trying to put resonable doubt in the readers mind that Adam would do this... Well Ask yourself What Is Clarence Blaming Adam For???
LACK OF COMMUNICATION I cant blame him for the health of the snake nor say he is the reason she died as I PREVIOUSLY STATED I didnt have a necropsy done.