Paradigm shift

Originally Posted by reptilebreeder

gosh darn it........maybe I should have made some terrible posts, as those times/participants mentioned are where I considered some of my best "work", but I seem to have become invisible, especially lately. Really miss my buds........Well Wes can't come back (even if he wanted to), Shrap is still here (though not mentioned above), JimO made a decision not to come back, Dand was gone for a bit, and is back now, but where the heck is James (pch101)? I noticed he visits occasionally, but I haven't seen any posts for a long time.

That was more or less my point John.....Wes was removed....the rules got strict and a few more decided to not return...And I do think if it was allowed, that Wes would return and JimO would soon follow...but that's just speculation on my part. I miss those days too! And No you're not invisible, just not quite as er um loud as they were LOL

Apparently people come here looking for something and just don't find it, then leave.

Maybe this isn't quite what you were getting at Rich, (probably not), but for the record, I very, very rarely post on this site, but use it rather frequently (whenever I am contemplating an internet transaction) -- often I find that using the "search" function finds me what I need to know, and I feel no need to post a new inquiry or make a new post for any real reason. I realize that sellers change, and frequent updates on recent transactions are always a helpful thing, but in many cases users not posting may not be inherently indicative of a failure on the part of this site -- on the contrary, in some way it may indicate a success as long as visitors are still frequent: the information needed is already there to begin with.

As for the debate of "soft vs. hard BOI" -- I feel that as a rarely participatory user, the thing that I find the most distracting is not neccessarily the harshness or crudeness of the regulars towards the current thread "bad guy," but the little side-tracking in-battles that go on between one regular and another. These have been there since long before the original "paradigm shift" of this site, and they are still there, albiet with slightly less derogatory accusations. I can definitely see the point about one's personality being allowed to truly show through only under a more lax regime, and perhaps this comes through the clearest in these little (seemingly pointless) off-topic in-battles. Nonetheless, I feel that it is these little battles that are the most distracting from the true point of the matter (outing "baddies"), not neccessarily the harshness of the regulars towards the accused in a post.

What does this drivel of mine have to do with the immense and rather disturbing topic of Chris at TSE? ... Well, not much really, I mainly just wanted to throw my main gripe out there, for anyone who cared I will say though, sticking on-topic, that I believe Chris's dominating personality thoroughly managed to shine through (under the old, "wild west" regime) well-enough while still staying on-topic.

I guess then my humble suggestion would be an attempt to curb the little pointless off-topic arguements between regular members that seem to tend to take over threads (couldn't such battles be fought via e-mail and private messaging, anyway?) while allowing enough grit and personality of a poster to shine through to reveal his or her true character. IMO, as I have now said ad nauseum, it is these little off-topic rantings that distract from the true point of the Board and discourage actual participation.

Of course, as always, this post is just my opinion, probably a bit less valid given that I often rarely participate in the actual BOI.

Boy one real problem with the internet is people try to read things in your words that are not there. Now I'm not speaking for Cathy here just saying what I know about her. She would be real unlikely to buy from Chris either way. She is into Chondro's and has a herd of them and is really really unlikely to buy Farmed babies which are all I can recall TSE ever having available.

I feel as she does about doing business with Chris even though I never had a conflict with him I felt that doing business with someone like him was something I'd rather not do even if he had something I wanted. The old wild west style or the new nicer Fauna have little to do with it the guy was just a putz and came across as one either way.

Hey I use to partake of the old wild and woolly BOI and can remember making the top 10 most wanted list on a scumbags site.

I also remember how many here relied on hitmen like Wes to open people up so they could pile on. I also remember how much finding that out seemed to bother him. How things are now?? Are they better? I don't know but I have to look at the TSE thread and say that in that case at least they are better now, a year ago he would have blasted the original poster and his side kicks would have piled on making hash of the truth and wow he may have been still ripping people off to this day.

Seems the truth is a bit easier to tell in the BOI now. But it's not the fun it used to be when you could dump all over people and that seems to really bother some that is is gone. Yeah I sorta miss it to . Randy

There really is no way to prevent off topic posting. That's because often a thread will just ooze over on a tangent and seldom is just an abrupt change. It normally happens in a moderate sized post where someone may make a single statement that is then picked up by someone else and then the discussion begins to head in that direction. So who would get the warning point? The first person because he/she made a single statement out of dozens that was not exactly on topic? Of the second person because he/she decided that statement needed to be expanded on? Either way, I would get grief for assessing that point.

Some of you may have noticed that the Report a post link is gone from all posts. Late last night I sent an email to my programmer asking him how I could disable that function. I had looked through the code and could not find the template that controlled it. Probably because I have some clutter in the templates and just was not looking at the correct one. In any event, he emails me back telling me where it is located, and he already removed the link for me. And he thanked me for finally doing that because since he is listed as an admin on this site, HE was getting all those danged reported post emails as well. And I guess he was just getting tired of them.

Honestly many people were abusing that function anyway in a "Mommy! Johnny called me a bad name and I want you to punish him.." manner. So I figured that toy had to be put away. And this is in keeping with my thoughts to do something about the rules here. Quite honestly, if I do decided to deep six the rules, I really don't want anyone to continue to contact me about someone else's posting anyway. You will be on your own for that problem.

Probably the warning system will be greatly modified to just major infractions. Maybe none at all, I'm still toying with this idea. But one excellent warning coming to mind is an immediate suspension for "Pissing off the admin". I'm just getting tired of coddling those people whose only purpose for being here is to needle me. I'm getting WAY over this feeling of having to be the good guy and take the abuse as some sort of constructive criticism. Way I feel about it right now, I could ban them in a heart beat and not lose a wink of sleep over it.

Another thing I am strongly considering is quite a bit of segregation of moderator powers. That is, simply make a moderator the sole handler of problems within their own forum. Deal with the issue, ban the person if you need to, but don't bother me about it. That way any issues with rules need to be dealt with directly with that moderator. And if a moderator goes overboard and bans everyone, well if your forum is now stagnant, then I don't need you around as a moderator any longer, now do I?

Anyway, I am still thinking about this as I have time.....

I’ve actually been thinking about that “report a post” button for some time. Something about hearing a mod say “I saw this minor infraction because it was reported” or worse~ hearing some poster brag that they “reported” some minor infraction BUGS THE SNOT OUT OF ME!!!!!

I don’t really understand WHY it bugs me~ as I have absolutely none of the harassment from the tattletales~ but it just bugs me. Something about being a whiner, crybaby, tattletale………….

I’ve often had the urge to ask

“Do you sit on the freeway onramp calling 911 every time you see a set of expired tags on a car?”

I actually started a thread on this very subject today~ but deleted it~ as it really isn’t my problem. It just bugged the snot out of me and I honestly wondered how you stomached all the tattletales running to tell you that “Johnny pulled my haaaaiiiiiirrrr!”

There is my off topic post. It’s been bugging me~ and you brought it up~ so I expanded on the topic!

Legit question here:
Why does it seem that things are changing on a regular basis here? I sometimes feel the need to re-read the TOS every single time I log in because something is ALWAYS being changed. Why do things change so much with this site?

Originally Posted by gmherps

Legit question here:
Why does it seem that things are changing on a regular basis here? I sometimes feel the need to re-read the TOS every single time I log in because something is ALWAYS being changed. Why do things change so much with this site?

Greg, you've been absent for a bit....things changed...people complained and now they are changing again. I really like the change especially the "report a post" option. I'm with you on that one Cheryl...it bugged me to no end! I never used it and though of it as a whiners button!

Originally Posted by gmherps

Legit question here:
Why does it seem that things are changing on a regular basis here? I sometimes feel the need to re-read the TOS every single time I log in because something is ALWAYS being changed. Why do things change so much with this site?

To what other sites are you comparing this one?

Actually you have been one of the major complainers about the way things have been working around here. Regardless of the number of times myself and the other mods explain how a truly even handed absolutely perfect enforcement of the rules is if not impossible, highly impractical, it just doesn't seem to sink in with people.

So I am taking stock of what issues of this site have been a major pain in the butt to me. Your complaint is one of them as it surfaces over and over again. The simply solution to that one is to have NO rules at all, so there is no problem about enforcement. Some people probably won't like that scenario very much, however. ANY rules at all will have a problem of uneven enforcement. No way around it. Not unless I hired a single person to do it full time, gave him or her an exacting list of what exactly constitutes a rule infraction, and hoped that he/she had no emotions at all that may cause him to interpret a phrase one way when in a good mood, then another when in a foul mood. But honestly, I think that kind of person would be pretty hard to find. I would STILL bet big money that people would STILL say the enforcement is biased because they got a warning point for something and so-and-so pretty much almost said something that could be construed the same way if you look at it right.

At this point I'm just not sure how I am going to change things. Going to NO rules, while very attractive to me, just may not be the best choice. Maybe cutting back to just enforcing only the worst and to hell with the rest may be worth trying.

So, Greg, to answer your question, this site is a work in progress. I am trying to adapt it to changes I see in how the members participate here. EVER rule I have ever made up has been after the fact from something someone has done, and it seemed prudent to warn members to not do something like that again.

But some are just judgement calls. I don't like the distractions that a signature area can cause with graphics and dozens of lines of text. Trust me, I have seen this sort of thing carried to such excess that you could not read the actual text in the thread messages. So I had to draw a line somewhere. Certainly people wanting 5 lines of text would think it extreme, because there isn't that much difference between 4 and 5 lines. Whereas someone using only a single line might think the rule is excessively lenient.

Animated avatars can drive you batty. Yeah, it's real cute the first time you see it, but after reading a thread where this person has posted 2 posts on every page, by the end of the thread you would like nothing more then to strangle him.

But anyway, these are the things running through my mind. And honestly I may wind up not doing much at all. Just leave things as they are, and simply boot out anyone who just can't seem to fit in here. No warning points, just *boot*, you're gone. That's pretty much how I run things over on CornSnakes.com and it works extremely well. That site puts down more posts per day then this site does with a third of the active members, and I rarely get any problems from that crowd. So maybe that actually is the ticket on how to run things here.

Cornsnakes.com does not have the BOI. That really is the attraction and the flashpoint here. Double edged sword I suppose. It attracts the numbers~ but also the contention~ which bleeds to several other areas of the site.

Do you sound disillusioned again to me? Or am I hearing things.......It sounds a little to me like you are considering doing as you have threatened in the past.......just cutting fauna loose with no rules at all and watch it burn itself up.

Originally Posted by reptilebreeder

gosh darn it........maybe I should have made some terrible posts, as those times/participants mentioned are where I considered some of my best "work", but I seem to have become invisible, especially lately. Really miss my buds........Well Wes can't come back (even if he wanted to), Shrap is still here (though not mentioned above), JimO made a decision not to come back, Dand was gone for a bit, and is back now, but where the heck is James (pch101)? I noticed he visits occasionally, but I haven't seen any posts for a long time.

Unfortunately, James is out of the hobby/business. But now I really feel left out.