about siklback and their husbandry

that is not what their site stated when that thread was going on.they must have changed their disclaimer afterwards because there were many ppl upset about it

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

. I believe that they simply stated that adeno is in much of the U.S. dragon population (which initial testing is backing up)

im not trying to start anything here, and im also not fully educated on the whole subject, but i believe that when many many dragons that were initially sent in when the test became available, there were LARGE numbers of infected animals in that inital group. And also why many are now stating that MOST dragons are infected. when, its actually entirely possible to have Adeno free Colonies.

Its like, a fix, basically, when in all actuality when most get their dragons tested, they may just come back negative.

Again, im not trying to start anything since adeno is a touchy subject already, but that is SOME of the information that i have gotten in the past on this, and believe that if most people actually had their dragons tested, things would prove out much differently.

Id like to know, what do others think about this idea, or possibility? Do you believe this to be entirely possible? or not at all? I think thats a question MOST would like to see answered.

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

Its like, a fix, basically, when in all actuality when most get their dragons tested, they may just come back negative.

Again, im not trying to start anything since adeno is a touchy subject already, but that is SOME of the information that i have gotten in the past on this, and believe that if most people actually had their dragons tested, things would prove out much differently.

Entirely possible. That is why more people need to test (including myself - I really need to get on that next week!). Without a larger group of people testing, we really won't have all the answers to this.

Jamie

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

Entirely possible. That is why more people need to test (including myself - I really need to get on that next week!). Without a larger group of people testing, we really won't have all the answers to this.

Jamie

If this IS the case, then i think people will start to make a stand against this virus, and eventually fade those unethical sellers out. All its going to take is some teamwork here from the community as a whole, and to out those who have the virus and warn others against them then Its like us BP lovers and IBD. Those people will not LAST in the industry/hobby with infected animals, and if they dont come out themselves, they will be dragged out by their ankles kicking and screaming ^_- we dont stand for that BS!!!

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

If this IS the case, then i think people will start to make a stand against this virus, and eventually fade those unethical sellers out. All its going to take is some teamwork here from the community as a whole, and to out those who have the virus and warn others against them then Its like us BP lovers and IBD. Those people will not LAST in the industry/hobby with infected animals, and if they dont come out themselves, they will be dragged out by their ankles kicking and screaming ^_- we dont stand for that BS!!!

I agree 100%. There's no way to know with the numbers that's been tested (or even what issues brought these animals to be tested) if AV is in the majority of Bearded Dragons...which tells me that even the new disclaimer on the Dachiu site is inaccurate and misleading.

Adenovirus is believed to be present in many/most bearded dragons,

This has not been proven and leads the consumer to believe that if most all of the dragons have it then there's nothing wrong with buying one that's infected.

I think the disclaimer should be changed to 'We don't test for AV but we believe we have it in our colony'

Please understand that it's not that I don't have the patience but I really don't have the time to decifer the first few posts in this thread. I am also having some health issues and it really hurts my brain trying to figure out what's what.
I would like to know, in plain english, in such a way that I can understand if there was any inbreeding taking place to create the silks. Yes or No.
If you don't have first hand knowledge but happens to be a much better person then myself and read this entire thread AND understands it, I would appreciate your input as I seem to be lost.

Thank you.

you are right sherri it is still misleading ,but apparently they changed their disclaimer after that last thread when they ended up on the BOI so its a little better than what it used to say.still word games though

im sorry i wasnt clear sherri,im talking about the dachiu site disclaimer i would also like to hear the answer to that yes or no question you just asked.

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

If this IS the case, then i think people will start to make a stand against this virus, and eventually fade those unethical sellers out. All its going to take is some teamwork here from the community as a whole, and to out those who have the virus and warn others against them then Its like us BP lovers and IBD. Those people will not LAST in the industry/hobby with infected animals, and if they dont come out themselves, they will be dragged out by their ankles kicking and screaming ^_- we dont stand for that BS!!!

Unfortunately, Alicia, one breeder has already said she currently has a negative colony, and for being honest, she was attacked and stalked, quite publicly.

I do believe a lot of dragons are infected, simply because of the nature of the virus, but I also happen to believe that we still have hope...that negative colonies can be established and maintained with a little bit of work. What makes that next to impossible, however, is that some people are allowing dollar signs to get in the way of doing what's right.

And yes, Michele, there was no disclaimer prior to the thread on the BOI. My impression is that it was only added because of continued pressure to do something. Pretty sad for someone who's supposed to be a leader of this community.

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

I had not read that thread before, but I took the time to skim over most of it before I got tired of reading it. To be honest, most of it seems like mud-slinging and it is hard to find facts amongst the fighting.

The bottom line - if Dachiu (or any other breeder) has suffered mass die-offs or other unusual signs of illness in their colony (that persist and cannot be attributed to another reason), then they should come forward with it, and test for adeno if they have not already done so. If Dachiu has NOT experienced problems in their colony, then I don't see why their disclaimer is insufficient to the point that they are considered to be "shady". I believe that they simply stated that adeno is in much of the U.S. dragon population (which initial testing is backing up) and that their breeders and babies are not tested (which they stated in the thread that they don't test all their breeders and babies). I don't think the fact that they have tested some of their dragons at any given point negates what they said in their disclaimer. It was not like they were claiming to the public to be free of adeno!

But - I think testing is important even if you don't have problems - just for information's sake. If there are breeders out there that test positive, but don't have health problems - then that says alot about this virus. But - if information about any colony's health is being withheld, then it will be that much longer before we will have all the facts neccesary to make an informed decision about this virus.

Jamie

My major issue with the information readily available right now to this community is that is no statistical data that would support any hard fast position on testing, and even the tests themselves are not exactly bulletproof.
So, no matter where your colony stands, we are still using the honor system here. We have to know our breeders well enough to know if they are accurately reporting their clutch mortality statistics and reporting health problems. We have trust breeders word on testing, lack of testing and any ongoing problems in their colonies.
I know of at least one breeder that said ALL of his animals were positive and he would not be breeding, then wham, everything changes and all the sudden he has babies from known positive parents for sale. Sorry, that still makes me cringe, but in the end, its buyer beware.
I even had one rather precious email telling me that if big breeders weren't going to see what the future holds with research and test their colonies, that "us" little breeders can't really change anything so why try? Sad to say, but as much as I disagree just on principle, he made a valid point.
Are there truly negative colonies in the US? Quite probably. Is it going to matter in the long run? Your guess is as good as mine.