Reptile Kingdom - Allen Both

I found this section of the web after I had already been ripped off and
here is my experience will Allen Both and Reptile Kingdom: I responded to an add he posted on kingsnake.com where he was looking for breeders to supply his buisness with reptiles. After a few email exchanges we came to an agreement and I shipped him the reptiles. Now its four months later and I still have not recieved payment and he has refused to answer/return call and email. So now I'm out $1400.00 and this loss has forced me to reduce my collection and I maynot be able to afford to breed my animals this year.

I have alreay filed reports with local law enforcement, I3C, NJ BBB, the National Fraud Information Service and kingsnake.com's abuse coordinator.

I can easily see this is not his first rip off, how he is allowed to continue ripping people off. I just want people to know what kind of person he is and how he conducts buisness. Avoid doing buisness with this person/company. I just wish I could have found this information before I dealt with him.

Do you have any e-mails pertaining to this transaction? If so please post them.

Originally Posted by DAND

Do you have any e-mails pertaining to this transaction? If so please post them.

email containing replys ... conversation upto shipping:


Re: Message about: WANTED : Your king snake clutchesWednesday, September 9, 2009 7:43 PM
From: Reptile Kingdom

Sure. Email me the invoice with your address so I can get you paid asap
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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From: Michael
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:21:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: Reptile Kingdom
Subject: Re: Message about: WANTED : Your king snake clutches

Ok, they are on the way.My printer is out of ink and I didnt have time to get some, so I will have to send you the invoice by mail tommorow, unless an I can email you a copy of it in your choice of formats.

Tracking Number: 870457782935

Thanks,
Michael

--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Reptile Kingdom wrote:

From: Reptile Kingdom
Subject: Re: Message about: WANTED : Your king snake clutches
To: Michael
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 7:37 AM


Ok. Let's do it. Can you ship this week. I have a show on Sunday I.wanted tp bring some to. Can you ship fedex with my number.

Let me know

Allen
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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From: Michael
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: Reptile Kingdom
Subject: Re: Message about: WANTED : Your king snake clutches

Hmm,

If you coverd shipping, I guess I could do that. I may want to keep a hypo and make it an even 50. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Michael

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Reptile Kingdom wrote:


From: Reptile Kingdom
Subject: Re: Message about: WANTED : Your king snake clutches
To: Michael
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 11:28 AM


If I were to take them all would you go $1400. Some of it is a little low ball but I have to jobber them to other suppliers because of the quantity. Let me know

Allen
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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From: Michael
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 07:24:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: Reptile Kingdom
Subject: Re: Message about: WANTED : Your king snake clutches

Sure thing:

Lets just deal with the hatchlings for now:

9x Snows,
7x Ghosts
4x Anerys,
5x Tri-Albinos,
4x Tangerine Albinos,
16x Hypos and
6 x Normals

Well, guess thats 51 total hatchlings, not sure if you care or not ... some hypos are also het for anery, all anerys are also het albino albino and hypo, and all normals 3x hets.

Thanks,
Michael

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Reptile Kingdom wrote:

From: Reptile Kingdom
Subject: Re: Message about: WANTED : Your king snake clutches
To: Michael
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 9:41 AM


Can you give me numbers of each type so I can work out a deal for all

Allen

------Original Message------
From: Michael
To: Reptile Kingdom
Subject: Message about: WANTED : Your king snake clutches
Sent: Sep 8, 2009 5:29 AM

*************
NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds. If you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to classifieds@pethobbyist.com.
NOTE: DO NOT flag this message as SPAM/JUNK as your ability to receive legitimate messages from Kingsnake.com Classifieds may be compromised
*************

Hello,

I have several clutches of 2009 Honduran Milksnakes, around 50 hatchlings, snows, ghosts, hypos, anerys, tri-color albino, tangerine albino, and normal phases. I may have some yearlings, subadults and adults available as well.

Thanks,
Michael

----------------------------------------------
Click on (or cut and paste into you browser's
location window) the URL below to view the ad that
this message is in response to.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?de=510102&cat=59


----------------------------------------------
This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.
This person may or may not be who they say they are.
The return address they provide may or may not be their correct address.

Sent 04:29 AM, Sep 08th, 2009 from I.P. Address **************


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

------------------------------------------
Now another email detailing lost payments.
------------------------------------------

Re: Past Due PaymentThursday, December 10, 2009 3:03 PM
From: Reptile Kingdom
To: Michael

Mike. I want to send u money. What is the paypal address. I will cover the fee
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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From: Michael
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 17:57:03 -0800 (PST)
To: Reptile Kingdom
Subject: Re: Past Due Payment


Yes I have a paypal account, but they would charge me about 45.00 to take the payment, so you would have to absorb at least half of that (even though I prefer you absorb all of it) either way I could resend you an invoice through paypal if you want.

I've had to move to avoid being evicted, moved to a smaller home and had to sell off many of my animals and don't have room for more. My unemployment is about to run out ... so things are kind of rough for me too.

Michael

--- On Mon, 12/7/09, Reptile Kingdom wrote:


From: Reptile Kingdom
Subject: Re: Past Due Payment
To: Michael
Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 11:39 AM


Michael, i am not a thief, this is the most bizzare thing i have ever dealt with. Actually i am glad the check didn't come this time because someone bounced a big check on me and i am in rough shape because of it, none the less i want to get you paid. Do you have a paypal account i could possibly send some money to, are you looking for any animals to offset what i owe you, one way or another i would like to work it out.

Allen


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael
To: Reptile Kingdom
Sent: Fri, Dec 4, 2009 3:51 am
Subject: Past Due Payment


Allen,

Apparently there is some space/time warp between your post office and mine. This is pushing the odds to astronomical proportions of the post office losing 3 payments in a row. Either way I still have not recieved payment, and if I still have not recieved payment by the 11th of December, 2009 I will be forced to filed fraud charges and persue legal matters to collect this debt.

Thanks,
Michael

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Allen still has not paid and now it has been 5 weeks with no more response from him. in the above copys I have replaced both my email address and allens email address with just our names this is only to prevent others from obtaining these addresses for some other purpose than intended here.

I've seen several people have problems like this, and each time I have the same question: Why did you send the animals before he paid you?

Originally Posted by R. Eventide

I've seen several people have problems like this, and each time I have the same question: Why did you send the animals before he paid you?

OK, I guess etiquette would be my first answer. As I was the unknown element in the equasion ... both him and kingsnake.com are verifiable and I am not I am the one responding to a supposedly honest request on a reptuble site. While I contacted him through the site and am a registered user I was not logged in. In either case etiquette dictates that since I initiated the conversation that led to the deal, I should provide my end first.

Another thing comes to mind ... sometimes to make some money you have to take a chance. I was not looking for a one time sale I was looking for a buisness relationship as I stated he was looking for breeders and I am a breeder and was looking for another wholesaler.

I took a chance and lost, it has hurt me bad, but I guess I'll live ... my whole point of this is preventing something similar happening to others as he appears to be a repeat offender.

Ahh, okay, I see. Yeah, that makes sense, and I'd want to be courteous to a well-known person as well.

You make very good points. My apologies. And thank you for posting; anything that helps other people avoid this guy is good!

Originally Posted by michaelynn

I found this section of the web after I had already been ripped off and
here is my experience will Allen Both and Reptile Kingdom: I responded to an add he posted on kingsnake.com where he was looking for breeders to supply his buisness with reptiles. After a few email exchanges we came to an agreement and I shipped him the reptiles. Now its four months later and I still have not recieved payment and he has refused to answer/return call and email. So now I'm out $1400.00 and this loss has forced me to reduce my collection and I maynot be able to afford to breed my animals this year.

I have alreay filed reports with local law enforcement, I3C, NJ BBB, the National Fraud Information Service and kingsnake.com's abuse coordinator.

I can easily see this is not his first rip off, how he is allowed to continue ripping people off. I just want people to know what kind of person he is and how he conducts buisness. Avoid doing buisness with this person/company. I just wish I could have found this information before I dealt with him.

I set up next to this piece of work at the harve de grace Md reptile show. He wobbles around trying to under cut breeders on there prices. I use to wholesale decent dragons to him.Then i go to get a 145 dollar crested female from him he says i can do it for 140 bucks. Not only did i not get the female, i wont sell to him anymore either. Just another bad business guy.

I sent this guy a shipment C.O.D. customer Check Acceptable via FedEx. FedEx for
some reason gave the shipment to the US Post Office for delivery. The Post Office
failed to collect the C.O.D. He sent me a check but it immediately bounced for "insufficient
funds" He gave me the same line I just read..."checks from other customers bounced"....
"I'm not lying to you". That shipment went out in early Oct 2008. I got my first "payment"
out of him in January 2009. By Sept 2009 he still owed me approx $325.00. I found out
that he had been doing business all along with another big supplier and paying him. I told him
I knew that and I wanted my money immediately. I got all but the last fee PayPal charged me for the transfer of the $350. It was almost a year to the day before I was finally paid.
FedEx charged me approx $324 for that shipment and wants it's money. It was the biggest
charge I paid for a shipment that size. They cited it was an oversized shipment and they
charged me by dimensions. The FedEx shipping charges were paid by Reptile Kingdom.
FedEx tried to charge my visa account. I told visa to please return the charge and let
FedEx take me to court for their funds. Visa credited my account. FedEx has threatened
me a couple of time with some kind of legal action. They informed me that I signed a contract
with them whereby I cannot hold them responsible for ANYTHING. They also pointed out
that I was not supposed to send any animals C.O.D. Like I carry that contract around with
me in my back pocket. So; they can throw your shipment off the back of one of their
trucks and you can't hold them responsible. Or they can give it to another carrier and
not be responsible. They forget the years of business given to them in the past. In the
time I was waiting for my funds from Reptile Kingdom I switched over to UPS. FedEx
lost over a year's worth of business. Good mover FedEx. Also; I tried to warn reptile shippers
on kingsnake.com about what happened with FedEx using the US Post Office to deliver
packages. kingsnake.com banned me from posting for 10 days because I made 3 attempts
to post. I no longer post on kingsnake.com. kingsnake.com doesn't want any of its viewer
posting anything bad about "companies". Basically kingsnake.com cares more about the
carriers than it does its customers/viewers. Everyone want's you to sign contracts these
days. It's like I need to carry around a little lawyer to be a customer and give people my
business/money. Smart move on the part of kingsnake.come and FedEx. They don't need
me and I no longer need them. I sell everything I collect/breed.
edsclassifieds58

same type of stories a couple years ago.....
different checks...oops wrong bank...oops wrong check....oops money in there now...oops...
LOL.........people play with their money way too much....if you don't have it don't spend it...
I got paid....keep at it.....
there are lots of stories out there........
Good Luck....!......................................... ........

Is there any update on whether Allen made good on this debt?