David,
You say it appears as if I am making blanket statements, but you fail to mention of the questions I posed. My post was much more a hypothesis that posed questions needing answers than it was any sort of blanket statement. As to the actual statements I made: I repeatedly, in my first post make sure to point out my post is based upon
my observations and I also pointed out in that post that my observations are limited to
the hundreds. So if it is a blanket it covers the hundreds of observations that I have made (and those are the very high hundreds, maybe higher). Yet even if that is so, that my observations are limited to the hundreds, by statistical probability it would also cover hundreds of other species of reptiles worldwide due to similarities caused by the convergent evolution of completely different yet similar species across the globe.
I will readily admit that the following statement by me should have read as I have now edited it below (boldface equals the edited portion but I would have thought it obvious that this was limited to what I had observed based upon the rest of my post, however since it was not I am correcting it):
Quote:
I have found that virtually all ground dwelling species that I have observed thermoregulate either by basking in the sunlight or by "basking" so to speak under surfaces such as warm to very hot flat stones.
|
I have in reality observed at least 125+ species of reptilian herps in the USA, including at least 25- 30 turtle species, 40 or so lizard species, and at least about 60 snake species (I am excluding all amphibians). This does not cover the numerous subspecies I have also encountered. I'll have to do a head count someday as I am sure my notes will reveal quite a few more. I have also observed herps in: Mexico - including turtles, lizards and snakes; Haiti - including turtles (unknown if these were native species or not) and lizards; Puerto Rico (no not a country but distinctly different from the rest of the USA) - lizards; Jamaica - lizards; and Germany - lizards. My observations in the USA include observations in approximately 40 of the lower 48 states, including AZ, CA, FL, GA, NM, NV, NJ, NY, PA, TX these being where most of my observations were made. As far as individual observations of the above types of herps go, my guess is I have made close to at least 1,500 observations of herps in their natural settings.
I think maybe you missed my intent which was to question, more than state; but also to use my observations as the basis for my questions. The questions I ask in my post, are still there to be seen, and I don't think anyone should see my post as a "blanket statement". Here are some of the original questions from my original post:
This has me wondering, if heat from above is usually the case in nature, (at least with the great majority of herps I have seen afield) then why do most people insist on heating herps from below in captivity? [/quote]
Quote:
Why is it that they insist that belly heat is the key to good health, when nature seems to indicate that dorsal surface heat may actually be the way to natural good health.
|
Sorry if I forgot a question mark for that last one, but I think you will admit it is a question.
Here is a statement I made with a following question based upon the statement:
Quote:
It has been hypothesized that the nerves in the ventral surface of such animals do not react to heat sufficiently so as to allow the animal to realize it is being harmed by too much belly heat.
|
Here is the question that followed (again sorry about the poor punctuation, but this was obviously a question): [quote]Would the same hold true for heat supplied to the dorsal surface, or would the herp receiving heat from above be better able to realize when it is time to get out of the heat.
I even go on to state that I realize there are species that my reasoning would not hold true for such as in this statement:
Quote:
Of course I realize that some herps are prone to be burned by lighting from above of allowed to get too close, but in cases that I have heard of like this the animals were almost always tropical species which do not thermoregulate in the same manner as their more temperate zone cousins.
|
You also mentioned nocturnal species. My observations have included nocturnal species of snakes, and lizards. This includes many of these far from black top roads in the desert. It is important to mention them because I found the ones I observed to often thermoregulate during the daytime, quite often, under such things as natural debris and stones or inside of cacti near enough the surface to be quite warm, certainly very warm to hot to the touch. In these instances the majority of the heat was on the dorsal surface of the animal.
Now I can also speak to my observations that were of those made from documentaries. I see where they are caught or found during the daytime and it is often under debris that is in the full sun, even for many nocturnal species. Watch these shows again in full, as many as you can, but leave off the sound, don't be biased by the words that the narrator puts to you. Then think about what I have written.
As to one statement made by you:
Quote:
While you are correct that the source of heat (the sun) does come from above, snakes that bask (most nocturnal species do not bask and most snakes are nocturnal) absorb most of the heat through their ventral surfaces, hence the reason that many people feel that belly heat is the best way to go.
|
I take some issue with this statement on at least two counts. You said that most snakes are nocturnal - are you sure they are not mostly diurnal and/or crepuscular as opposed to nocturnal, and aren't many of those that are nocturnal only seasonally nocturnal? You also seem to imply people feel belly heat is best because snakes that are nocturnal do not bask and therefor cannot receive heat through their ventral surfaces. Because of that statement by you, I must again point to something I said in my original post, once again based upon my observations:
Quote:
In virtually every such situation the most heat that is being transferred to the herp is coming from above - from the bottom of the stone under which they are thermoregulating, or directly from the sunshine.
|
That part about the heat coming from the stone under which they are thermoregulating is the key. You see, even nocturnal species will thermoregulate during the daytime under stones, other debris, inside a cactus, under tree bark or in other suitable areas. Narrators of herp shows may say oh look they are protecting themselves from the rays of the sun, but that is only partially true. Those under a flat stone or near the surface under the debris, or under a flat stone, in dead or dying cactus, or under a single layer of tree bark are probably seeking heat for thermoregulation, unless in the item in which, or under which, they are hidden is in the shade. I can assure you, if it is in direct sunlight and it is a fairly warm day it gets quite warm to hot under or inside most of those items.
So again, based upon my numerous observations, I would ask the same questions of they who insist, by way of their own blanket statements, that belly heat is the only or the best way to go for the great majority of herps. My hypothesis may be wrong, but it certainly contains a valid set of questions to ask. The herp industry has not sufficiently answered them as I see it. I think it is about time that the herp industry does some scientific work to determine the best methods of heating animals, not just for their pocket books, but also for the health of the herps.
All the best,
Glenn B