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Old 04-07-2007, 02:28 PM   #11
"Tammy, it is curious how you now say that all have this, when you stated you have ones that have tested negative and more than once. You also have positive ones, so are you saying you will not try to keep those negative testing ones negative?

It is curious how you say "many, many colonies have tested negative"....yes??

I beleived everything you said even though you showed me no proof of this, I want to believe so badly...the problem is that I can not afford to listen to fiction and the difference is now I am asking for that proof..I did call FL and IL and they said no, no, and double no. If there are other labs that tested all these negative colonies...send me the info or concede that you have been mislead and mistaken if not send over the info and I can ask them for their stats...labs are happy to do this when asked.

Yes, I do have dragons still holding negative results, I don't know if they are truly negative, Brian can not guarantee them negative..I have asked him over and over. I have tested one baby I bought that was positive on PCR and he did test neg on EM.

Where are the multiple neg EM tests and which lab did these? I know what I can account for in that 63 neg status from IL...who do you know has completed two rounds of neg testing from there? Attachments need to accompany statements like this.......and no one is stealing documents..that was a smokescreen..catching someone stealing is very easy with a phone call to said lab.

I have destroyed animals that were coming back positive and all of my animals have separate cages now, even the females are housed separately..try to keep them negative? you bet. Are they really negative...I don't even know what that means, the vet doesn't either.

"What can we all come together with one plan that we ask breeders to adhere to? Give you Doctors statements with the care sheets? Make them available at shows? or are we back to sweep it under the table like 5 years ago?"

I don't know what is so different from 5yrs ago to can't prove there were negative colonies 5yrs ago....FL has been testing them positive for 4 yrs now......I have asked you repeatedly to provide me proof of these negative coloies( I paid a big price in destroying positive animals and trying to do my part by breeding only negatives..but by God there are no negative animals out there to replace the ones I murdered...I wish I had known) are still talking gobbeldygook to me about negative colonies

show me the money

and I need that info on the other 2 more accurate tests where do they do it and how do I order my kits.....I asked several days ago

I want to test my babies this way if there are more accurate tests than the PCR and stop wasting my money...........Florida has no idea what you are talking about, I have asked them because you will not forward me the information on these tests you speak of.

I know I have been argueing with you in that I think most or all have it that have been tested and you disagree, but the thing is ...I can back up my statement from the testeds and Florida says most have it...they do not have any clean colonies only a few negatives out of all those animals...I know what I can account for from Florida.......who else has negatives from FL?

"One more thing.. I would really like to know the YEARS they have been doing testing and not using liver biopsy or necropsy, because if that is true, then they lied to me several years ago and I do not beleive they did"

You don't need to the document they state they have been doing PCR for 4yrs now..that's years and they have accumulated enough in those 4yrs to give us some grave news.
Old 04-07-2007, 09:35 PM   #12
"and I need that info on the other 2 more accurate tests where do they do it and how do I order my kits.....I asked several days ago"

Oh, ok Cheri ...Sammy tells me that you were speaking of necropsy and liver biopsy. I honest to God could not tell from your post what you were talking about as we were discussing tests on live lizards..the liver biopsy..I don't even know anyone who submitted their lizards for is scary.

I was going crazy because I couldn't find any other tests. Necropsy is out of the question for me and my vet would never do a liver biopsy when there is PCR..I would have to find another vet to do it.
Old 04-08-2007, 03:58 AM   #13
ALL breeder even small ones lose babies, its a fact of breeding and hatching, it just happens sometimes....why is a necropsy out of the question?

If more breeders did submit babies or adults that do not survive for a necropsy with request specifically to check for adeno, I think it can give a tremendous amount of VALUABLE info and move us closer/faster to some answers. We could see those that actually are positive, PLUS if they are positive, we would learn the affects or LACK of affect of that virus in them, which would tell us what dragons are adversely affected and may help narrow down if there is more than one strain or other factors that can be a catalyst or co-cause of illness. How can that not be more valuable?

If anyone is telling you that those 2 are not accurate, that sure is news to a lot of us and I am sure to the labs that for years diagnosed it and the actually internal damage it was doing or if this was the cause of death/illness

Ashley Zehnder, DVM, UC Davis College of Veterinary Medicine
Adenovirus is most commonly diagnosed by the observation of suggestive lesions in the liver and the gastrointestinal tract of affected animals. Very often, inclusions are found on necropsy or biopsy
Old 04-08-2007, 04:42 AM   #14
Ive turned my fans on to blow the smoke away. What the heck are the "Two tests" you are talking about? Don't write anything but what the tests are and how they work.
Good Lord! Please let us know!.
Old 04-08-2007, 08:08 AM   #15
The truth is regardless, they only tested a very few of the dragons out there in the U.S., I can not believe anyone is taking it that they say all of these dragons are positive based on the very few they have tested. How many dragons are in the U.S., verses the testing they have done? 1,000,000 or more IMO. Truth is, that is based on the very few they have tested.

I also would not look for many that have tested and got negative results to come forward, we know they would start being attacked just like what is happening above in this thread.
Old 04-08-2007, 08:24 AM   #16
Originally Posted by JimD
Don't write anything but what the tests are and how they work.
Who are you to think you got the right to tell anyone what to say about anything? The reason no one treats you with any respect is because you dont treat anyone with respect yourself.
Old 04-08-2007, 10:34 AM   #17
Sorry Shrap.
Worded a little more blunt then need be. Just trying to get it in simple terms.
Old 04-08-2007, 11:12 AM   #18
"ALL breeder even small ones lose babies, its a fact of breeding and hatching, it just happens sometimes....why is a necropsy out of the question?"

Dr. Stacey does say a necropsy is not as accurate as PCR for AV detection...he said this, I don't know why then..

He never discussed the liver biopsy with me, never brought it up as a testing method and he never brought up necropsy as a testing method for me.

I was talking about tests for our live lizards, the breeding stock ....they are the most important to test and their babies. Necropsy is out of the question for determining if a healthy lizard is AV pos.

I don't want to do a liver biopsy on them.....doc would kill me, bringing in a colony of dragons for liver biopsy......the cost for this would be super I bet...and I don't want to test these nice babies this way. Very unreasonable to do a biopsy and I don't know anyone who has even tested that I have seen the test paper this way..not one person.

I had thought you meant there were 2 more accurate tests for live healthy lizards...yes I do know we can do biopsy on live healthy lizard.

I hounded you because I was excited, I couldnt fathom it was these two tests you were suggesting to me...these are clearly unreasonable for testing my colony.

I am fascinated with who these people are that are taking in colonies for liver biopsy...whole colonies yeidling many, many negatives with their liver biopsies? A truck full of lizards going to the vet?
Old 04-08-2007, 11:15 AM   #19

It is liver biopsy and necropsy...relax, go have some coffee, some eggs and that good bacon you guys are so stingy with.
Old 04-08-2007, 11:31 AM   #20
Thank you.
You were right yesterday.

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