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Old 04-26-2007, 04:55 PM   #61
Originally Posted by varnyard
I choose the truth, that what I support.

What is the truth, bobby ? You changed your stance and views so much thoughout. Tell us all, what is the truth.
Old 04-26-2007, 04:58 PM   #62
Originally Posted by mikey
What is the truth, bobby ? You changed your stance and views so much thoughout. Tell us all, what is the truth.
Nope, I only changed it once, that was after I found out the truth.

So Vickie, care to answer those questions? Or are you still going to let other stick their necks out for you?
Old 04-26-2007, 06:25 PM   #63

So Vickie, care to answer those questions? Or are you still going to let other stick their necks out for you?[/QUOTE]

Sorry Bobby, But unlike yourself, I have and always will state only my own opinions on AV. I didn't make calls and email everyone around the country like you did. I think for myself and state only my views, right or wrong, whether I agree or not with the majority or minority. I never FOOLISHLY stuck my neck out for anyone, unlike yourself, and never will here. I also questioned Denise on testing blood PCR and still wonder why/if she tested blood when no one else had. I think it was valid to dispute her choice of testing and still do.

I am also glad to see you are not a mod here any longer as I think your behavior has been well, I think Kelli H summed you up quite perfectly.

04-07-2007, 12:25 PM
Join Date: Feb 2002
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It's exactly as I suspected: It's perfectly A-Ok for Bobby Hill to make his opinions known and ask questions of others in a debate but when someone else believes differently and doesn't happen to agree with him, watch out! Don't you think that is a tad bit hypocritical of you, Bobby?

And I would like you to please explain how it is you think that I am turning a blind eye to the situation. I am participating in the discussion, just like you are! I just happen to have some differences in opinion with you, and then OF COURSE you bring up-

what happened nearly a year ago when was made public... Bobby, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the current situation, dude. That is in the past and Rich and I have resolved our problems with each other.

I think the truth of the matter is that you are upset that you were Vickie's and (Kevin Dunn's probably) TOOL. And you have reason to be upset, but acting the way you have been is only making you look worse.

Old 04-26-2007, 07:25 PM   #64
Jean, the proof is seen who is behind it all, give it a break.

Same people, same story.
Old 04-26-2007, 09:01 PM   #65
Originally Posted by mikey
Sorry Bobby, But unlike yourself, I have and always will state only my own opinions on AV. I didn't make calls and email everyone around the country like you did. I think for myself and state only my views, right or wrong, whether I agree or not with the majority or minority.
Jean, Bobby made those calls and emailed people to LEARN. If we don't talk to others and learn from their experiences, how will we ever learn?

Bobby made mistakes and manned up to them. He didn't know a lot about the virus, and did his best to learn what the truth is, and what was BS. That's more than a lot of folks have done, and he has put more effort into learning about it than even many folks who BREED dragons do...and he doesn't even raise them.
Old 04-27-2007, 12:56 PM   #66


I may not be a breeder, but am an owner of dragons. However, at THIS point now, what needs to be done is just raise awareness & TRY to fix some of the problems that are in the colonies.
IF there is no guideline then nothing will ever get started. It definitely isn't going to get fixed overnight. All of the arguing isn't going to fix it either. So what if every question isn't answered yet, but I am quite sure that they will be soon.
Yes, according to the UF document, some dragons exhibit no symptoms while others do & simply die. Why are some dragons' immune systems better than others? Survival of the Fittest I guess, but, we are not helping the species along with our haphazard acts. I wish I knew the answers to why some dragons' genetics were better than others, but I don't. The same thing goes for people, why do some people who smoke get lung cancer while some smoke their whole life & never get lung cancer? It makes no sense. The best thing I can come up with is genetics & predetermined vulnerability to disease due to weakened immune systems. We need to give the dragons the best chance for survival.
All most of us are asking is to please be responsible breeders. Just do the testing. I am quite aware how expensive it is, but, if no one does it because they think why bother everyone has it anyway, everyone definitely WILL have it. Even if a carrier exhibits no symptoms, they all of the sudden could die from something strange. Why do we want the future dragons to all be carriers, wouldn't we rather them be without the virus altogethr? Isn't that what this should be about anyway? Everyone says yeah they care about the dragons, but, actions speak so much louder than words ever will. Then just DO something.
Other countries that have Bearded Dragons aren't having these problems apparently. It is because we have overbred here & weren't careful when the problem first arose. Now, just start doing something about it.

Old 04-27-2007, 08:59 PM   #67
EXACTLY, Tracie! Great post!
Old 04-28-2007, 12:14 AM   #68
As a owner of two positive dragons, I agree with Ladyknite. Certain breeders actions speak louder than their talk. Anyone that has followed all those posts on this forum can see that.

Tracie your post was excellent.

Old 04-28-2007, 01:19 PM   #69
I can see you missed the point. My post was not about insinuations or accusations. It was full of questions. Questions that would finalize the thoughts of so many. If we don’t soundly answer those questions…… they not lay as dormant thoughts? I never accused anyone of anything, nor do I intend to. But typically, those easily offended are the ones that carry the most guilt.

Wendy Thomas posted :
I emailed Dr. Jacobson and asked the following questions:

How many dragons were tested? From how many colonies? How many were suspected of having adenovirus and were showing some type of symptoms? How many were otherwise healthy and the owner was testing to see if they carried the virus? What part of the U.S. were the dragons from? Where were the breeders located that they originated from? Was it more prevalent in some areas of the country? What is the testing time period?

He emailed back and said I presented a number of very good questions but it is beyond their ability to provide answers to all of them. He also said many people provide samples without giving them detailed background on their animals..

Can the answers to those questions that Wendy asked be given at this time? If so, where are they?

Without contacting a very busy man to ask the same repetitive questions of him, I relied on the information given to us by Wendy. I feel what she has to offer to this community is in it’s best interests and considering her position, she has no need or desire to lie to anyone.

What is positively indicated is that we don’t have the answers we seek. Plain and simple. Why is ok for one group of people to “question the answers” before this paper was released and now that another group had additional questions it’s not ok? Was there not a controversial discussion over the validity of EM fecal and PCR and the rate of accuracy? Did this community find some sort of answer in those discussions? It appears that it must have.
Now, I must know, since when is it not ok to rely on the information posted by respectable members?

Did Jacobson not say that Potentially positive animals should not be bred? So tell us……..without testing, how does one determine that fine line?

I’ll not apologize for asking questions that are well within my rights and in the minds of more than just me. You can forget that. I was under the assumption that this forum was designed to discuss possibilities and potentials to better carry on this species. But since you seem to be the leader of authority here……….I’ll assume that observation was wrong.

I find it astonishing that this is how you address the people Vicki. The same people that look to you as a possible breeder for the dragon they choose. I am nobody to you, I am only a person that owns dragons. Yet you immediately insult me, without the first attempt to offer information into the inquiry I made. I also asked questions as to what is thought to make some appear healthy and others die……..but that got blown off to the side for you act as tho this were a personal attack on you.
I refuse to belittle myself or you by uttering profanities at you like a spoiled child much in the same way you’ve done. Grow up………it’s not a business for all of us.

I have no guilt for what I said. But the thought isn’t mine alone. Maybe you should run your own study on that.
Old 04-29-2007, 12:28 AM   #70

I agree totally with you on this one.. The questions werent answered when they were asked. So if we are not given these answers. What I feel are simple ones.. Then what are we supposed to think. Is there a reason why they arent being given?
If this is for research they should be keeping track of who and location of to see if it may be worse in some areas? I would think so. To me its a logical thing.

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