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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

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Old 01-28-2005, 07:53 PM   #191
another thread on Fire and Ice

Hello. This is my first post here, I was led here by a thread on another board concening Terri of Fire and Ice Dragons, and I thought some of you might be interested in seeing it as well. Basically the thread concerns a complete newbie that bought an adult citrus male from Terri and supposedly paid almost $1,000 dollars for him. I heard from others that this newbie was told that Terri invented the citrus line herself. I saw the beardie at a show, and although he was of decent coloration and size, he was by no means spectacular, you could buy much better for much less from many reputable breeders. This lady was trying to sell babies from a mating between this male and an 8 month old female she bought from Terri too. The babies were totally unremarkable, with plain coloration, and she only sold 1 baby dragon at a two day show. I can't believe Terri is still getting these prices from people when there are so many good reputable breeders out there that are fair priced business people for terrific dragons. I mean, just because you sell a pig's ear for $$$$$$$, it's still a pigs ear. And shame, shame on her for not refunding OP's money, and trying to pass every problem off on their husbandry! I think alot of people mistakenly believe in Terri's case, that very expensive must be better beardie. I had heard that Terri has not been breeding for 15 years, but claims it, and claims creation of the citrus line...evidently this poor newbie that spent that kind on money hangs on every word Terri says as 'Beardie Gospel'...Even the care sheet she has on her website reflects incorrect care that she probably learned from Terri. I can't believe that Terri change her website refund policies after the fact, how rotten does that make her look? Anyway, here is the link to the other board thread if anyone wants to take a look....I think the newbies website is sunstardragons.net also.

bearded dragon.org thread on Fire and Ice
Old 01-28-2005, 10:06 PM   #192
Well, let me just say, this thread made a HUGE difference in who I purchased my dragon from. I took my time reading and formulated my own opinion based on all the evidence that was presented here. Shy of ebay's feedback forum I can't think I would have found this kind of information anywhere else in the pet industry.
I love the BOI! I wish more forums would use this sort of method to get word of mouth out about sellers, both good and bad. It's truly been invaluable!
Old 01-28-2005, 11:33 PM   #193
Originally Posted by 4TheLuvOfBeardies
Stacey, I guess you are one of the lucky ones. Did you not say that your dragon had coccidia & pinworms? You are very lucky that these parasites did not go out of control like mine did. I followed every direction she gave me and still we are dealing with resistant coccidia. I took her off the Albon about 3 weeks agao and she is finally eating better on her own. Jill is 6 1/2 months old and only weighs 127 grams. But I do have to say she has very pretty coloring.

Pic of Jilly:
Yes, I did say that and he did have a low level of both parasites on fecal exam, but he never showed any signs of illness. H was dewormed twice with metronidazole and fenbendazole and I never had a other probelms. I am sorry about your dragon and I think that it is ridiculous that Terri did not stand by her guarantee. I wasn't taking any sides just making sure that what I contributed was 100% honest.
Old 01-29-2005, 12:34 AM   #194
I like to add a few things:

Stacey is a very experienced keeper and a Vet tech, she knows her husbandry and has worked with rescues that had some serious problems. She knows how to handle those problems and is very responsible not only to find out what may be going on with a reptile, but also how to support them through treatment so they do thrive. I am sure that had a postive effect on Fuego, in anothers hands the outcome may not have been so good.

I have watched Fuego from the time she got him and that great care is reflected in him and some other's she has..... its a lucky beardie that finds it's way to her home!

It is not usual for young dragons to have coccida or pinworms blooms at times, especially after changing enviroments. Its how they build their immune system, so that should not soley be used as a judgment of a good breeder or a bad breeder. How they are handled once they arrive (proper temps and other needs met) and their ability to deal with the changes play a big factor in their future health.
Old 01-29-2005, 01:03 AM   #195
Originally Posted by justcage
I dont allow people to come into my home either. I have had local people wanting to buy snakes and wanted to come and pic them up here. I have alot of money in my collection and really dont want someone to know exatcly what is where... I provide pics on all of my ads, classifieds and on my site of every animal I have for sale and will take additional pics if requested to.. JUst bad business not to..
-Matt Graybeal
Same here. No one comes to my house, period. Theft is quite common in both the reptile industry and fish, I have a lot of money tied up in both. It also is more convenient for the buyer and myself, I meet them 50 yards off the highway......this is way easier than going to my home 5+ miles and 15 turns off the highway.
Old 01-29-2005, 01:44 AM   #196
Hey Cheri! Thanks for the kind words. I have a new rescue that the previous named Stubby. He was housed with another male dragon that was bigger than him. He only has about 9 or 10 toes left and less than half a tail. He came really skinny but he is steadily gaining and has a really cool personality. But don't worry, I still have room for a Zookie baby
Old 01-29-2005, 07:43 PM   #197
No offence


I meant no offence to what you posted. I know you have the knowledge and skills alot of us don't. Your knowledge of dealing with sick beardies can help alot of us out there. Just reading that you rescue animals is so wonderful and between a few rescue people I have talked to, I have had second thoughts about breeding. After my experience, I think I have certainly have grown. So, maybe it all can be chucked up to a educational experience.

I have researched dragons for awhile now but nothing is better then experience.
I use mecury vapor lights with all my 4 dragons. Temps are between 103-110, cool side is 80-85. I keep my temp in the house up to 75 at night, because it is so cold up here right now. I live just 30 miles south of Buffalo. Yeek! We use newspaper for substrate with smooth basking logs. I steam clean there tanks and use Nolvasan for disinfecting. We bleach there basking logs, rinse them good and bake them on 300 for 15-20 minutes,.
There diets are pretty good. They eat appropriate sized crickets, greens, pellets and the occasional super worms and wax worms, of course all dusted with rather Cal with Vit D, Herptivite, Absolute Calcium or veggie dust. They are not real big on fruits though. In the summer time they really seen to enjoy rinsed elderberries on the branch. When neccesary I suppliment with chicken baby food and pedialyte. We will also throw in some baby food fruits that way.
Do you think these methods are okay? Of course we all take turns loving them up. Jill likes the attention the most and will sit on my shoulder, check me out, and fall asleep. They are all my babies no matter how big they get. My husband says that every time I walk into the room, they all turn there heads and look at me.

Your advise is truley appreciated & I am sorry if I offended anyone,

Old 01-29-2005, 07:52 PM   #198
Tripple H Herps
Same here. No one comes to my house, period. Theft is quite common in both the reptile industry and fish, I have a lot of money tied up in both. It also is more convenient for the buyer and myself, I meet them 50 yards off the highway......this is way easier than going to my home 5+ miles and 15 turns off the highway.
-Yeah, I dont let people go to my home either. I have BP morphs and boa morphs. Probally more money in animals then furniture...lol. So theft is a major concern. I will however meet people or take pics of my "reptile room" if desired.
Thanks, Jim
Old 01-29-2005, 11:43 PM   #199

No offense taken! No worries! We are all here because we love dragons.
I just wanted to make sure my post was accurate. I am not out to bash Terri or her dragons, but there were certainly some problems with my transaction with her and some things about how she does business that I think she should change. I think because I was so new to the purchasing game I didn't know how it worked. The BOI is great to help new people see how responsible and reliable breeders do business.

Here is Fuego the day I received him. Pretty, but not $250 pretty (look how tiny he is! Such a big boy now! I just love that lizard!)
Attached Images
Old 01-30-2005, 07:17 AM   #200
I wanted to thank CheriS for sharing this link on one of my mailing lists in regards to someone who purchased a bd from Fire & Ice and it appears to have been lethargic for sometime now.
My husband and I backed out of a deal this past fall with Fire & Ice only because we thought they wanted too much for a pair of adult dragons that weren't breeding for them. He talked to her a few times and would relay what was said over the phone and I was always like, thats just way too much. I could see maybe paying that for a Snow Boa or Mojave Ball Python but adult bearded dragons that arent breeding at all for you?? There has to be something wrong.
Since then he has gone back and forth with the idea of buying some dragons from a company out of Washington (cant remember the name atm, its 2:55 am right now), or Fire & Ice. I can guarantee you that we will not be buying anything from them till their business practices change for the better.
I never knew this part of the forum was here till we were scammed with a adult female BP (paid the money but never got her). My husband found out about this from another forum when he started asking questions. Now a days before he finalize anything, he does a search on here and finds out if they have positive or negative feedback.
Needless to say this has made for some very interesting reading and my brain really hurts at this point. My heart goes out to everyone who has been decieved and conned by Fire & Ice. I hope your beardies recover with some of the advice CheriS gave you above.
She was great in helping me out when i've had problems with two dragons I got months ago that were shipped to me with YFD. Not fun. CheriS has earned my respect. When I'm reading posts on the various bd mailing lists im on. I scan over a lot of them until I see her post or a few others like Nicholle's and I'll read them thoroughly and decide to read the whole subject matter or discard it for the time being. I appreciate people like CheriS and other's who care enough to help you out when you are faced with something completely foreign and new going umm should I panic or is this normal. Like in my case with my two dragons that will always be at the opposite end of the house than rest of my reptiles because I want nothing to infect my collection. The morning after they came to me when I went to bathe them I noticed the one had what looked like a urine stain on her underbelly and after her bath got on to the mailing lists and emailed my questions and Cheri and a few others emailed me about what they thought it might be. I had a few days prior read about YFD and was like ok thats something I want to avoid at all costs and low and behold I am shipped two sick beardies with it. I have those beardies still, taking care of them the best I can. It was suggested to me to ship them back and have him refund me and pay for all shipping costs but I couldnt bring myself to it. He would either 1. send them to someone else who might dump them someplace and they die or 2. he dumps them or destroys them and I just couldnt do that to them. As long as they are here I know they are being watched after and taken care of to the best of our ability.
Anyways back to the subject at hand. I am sorry for those who have been hurt and ripped off by Fire & Ice and hope that this will help others from being ripped off further. I seriously doubt we will ever do any business with them just from things we were told last fall and what I've read here. I know my husband will feel the same way after he reads this post.

PS CheriS, hope I didnt embarrass you too much, I really appreciated your help with Terry & Jerry (dont ask my daughter and I were being goofy giving them baths when we named them). Oh and an update for you on them, havent seen anything on either of them for a month now. Which is awesome. They will never be in the same room with rest of my bd's and snakes. I dont want to take any chances. Thanks again CheriS for all your help and advice.

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