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Old 09-18-2017, 12:49 PM   #81
marku1999
Jason,

Thanks for your input and interest in this issue.

The seller has not responded to me since August 29th (though he is on line today and has been numerous times since then).
Paypal is reviewing the claim (on one payment - I bought and paid for the first tortoise posted, then found out about the second one on a phone call with Alex so I paid for that one separately).

So, paypal has up to 30 days to make a determination.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 01:22 AM   #82
Bryan S
I see some new ads from the seller, anything new?
 
Old 09-28-2017, 06:20 AM   #83
KNOBTAIL
Is the tortoise still in your possession? I am assuming it is. In order for a refund to this kind of a dispute to be resolved in your favor, the tortoise would have to have been returned.

Since that is not the case, PayPal cannot debit the account of Imperial and still allow the tortoise to be in your control. At that point you will have gotten your money back and still have the tortoise. The system does not work that way ! I am curious how this transaction effects his attempt to sell other items, with this kind of a policy. Please keep us informed.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 10:27 AM   #84
marku1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan S View Post
I see some new ads from the seller, anything new?
Hey Brian,

Paypal has requested documentation from a licensed vet to prove they are not as described. I have an appointment for next Friday to take them in and get a positive ID and the documentation to prove it.
I did point paypal to this discussion as well as one of the for sale posts, but they insisted on vet documentation. I am a bit irritated with it, theoretically I could spend money for the vet visit and still not win the case.... I will do it just to see this through - of course with the hope of winning.

Thanks for your concern!
 
Old 09-28-2017, 11:11 AM   #85
marku1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by KNOBTAIL View Post
Is the tortoise still in your possession? I am assuming it is. In order for a refund to this kind of a dispute to be resolved in your favor, the tortoise would have to have been returned.

Since that is not the case, PayPal cannot debit the account of Imperial and still allow the tortoise to be in your control. At that point you will have gotten your money back and still have the tortoise. The system does not work that way ! I am curious how this transaction effects his attempt to sell other items, with this kind of a policy. Please keep us informed.


Yes, I do still have the tortoises. He would not agree to take them back so I did not ship them back.
The way paypal has worked for me in the past, should they rule in my favor, they will order them returned (and require proof of delivery) before they would refund the money.

One more bright spot to having to take them to the vet is they will get a checkup so their condition will be verified before shipping out ( so he can't make some absurd claim).

Nothing prevents him from continuing to sell on line; however this forum (all threads and posts) stay here forever for people to see. So far we have over 80 posts and almost 8,000 views, so people are seeing the effects of this transaction, and his unwillingness to make it right.

I thank everyone who has commented and lent their expertise on this issue. I will continue to update, and will let you know what the vet says and the outcome of the paypal dispute.

Thanks!
 
Old 09-28-2017, 12:52 PM   #86
Bryan S
Quote:
Originally Posted by marku1999 View Post
Hey Brian,

Paypal has requested documentation from a licensed vet to prove they are not as described. I have an appointment for next Friday to take them in and get a positive ID and the documentation to prove it.
I did point paypal to this discussion as well as one of the for sale posts, but they insisted on vet documentation. I am a bit irritated with it, theoretically I could spend money for the vet visit and still not win the case.... I will do it just to see this through - of course with the hope of winning.

Thanks for your concern!
I hope that the vet is well versed in Carbonaria variants. I would not expect a random vet to be a authority on redfoot variants. You may want to double down by bringing them some literature ie. the book South American tortoises which has pics of a lot of Brazilian Carbonaria in it.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 01:00 PM   #87
marku1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan S View Post
I hope that the vet is well versed in Carbonaria variants. I would not expect a random vet to be a authority on redfoot variants. You may want to double down by bringing them some literature ie. the book South American tortoises which has pics of a lot of Brazilian Carbonaria in it.
Thank you for the suggestion! I agree that the vet may not be able to id with certainty and do plan to bring documentation with me.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 01:23 PM   #88
KNOBTAIL
Mark, " should they rule in my favor, they will order them returned (and require proof of delivery) before they would refund the money. " I dont think would work to well for you and the tortoise considering that there is no obligation to take it back.Imperial cannot be forced even if the transaction occurred in there premise. Civil remedies are time consuming and can get costly... What if you sent the tortoise back and the package was refused ! Its a no win situation. Just curious, why have you not instituted a chargeback through your credit card company that was backed by PayPal.

More than likely PayPal when all is said and done, PayPal will tell you to file through your own credit card company. That was the problem i encountered when i had the same issue with Apple.

Assuming the vet agreed with you, its an unenforceable return.

There are so many variants to this issue as Imperial could say what they shipped you is not the tortoise that you are looking to send back. That the sale was final, That there return policy requires you to pay all shipping expenses, on and on. That the vet is not qualified to make that kind of a determination.

More importantly, Mark, you should consider your next step if the notification from PayPal comes back and is not in your favor. Try to resell it , get the most out of it and move on.

There are some very good people out there who have some nice Cherrys and i would be more than happy to assist in making some contact. JERRY
 
Old 09-28-2017, 07:12 PM   #89
marku1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by KNOBTAIL View Post
Mark, " should they rule in my favor, they will order them returned (and require proof of delivery) before they would refund the money. " I dont think would work to well for you and the tortoise considering that there is no obligation to take it back.Imperial cannot be forced even if the transaction occurred in there premise. Civil remedies are time consuming and can get costly... What if you sent the tortoise back and the package was refused ! Its a no win situation. Just curious, why have you not instituted a chargeback through your credit card company that was backed by PayPal.

More than likely PayPal when all is said and done, PayPal will tell you to file through your own credit card company. That was the problem i encountered when i had the same issue with Apple.

Assuming the vet agreed with you, its an unenforceable return.

There are so many variants to this issue as Imperial could say what they shipped you is not the tortoise that you are looking to send back. That the sale was final, That there return policy requires you to pay all shipping expenses, on and on. That the vet is not qualified to make that kind of a determination.

More importantly, Mark, you should consider your next step if the notification from PayPal comes back and is not in your favor. Try to resell it , get the most out of it and move on.

There are some very good people out there who have some nice Cherrys and i would be more than happy to assist in making some contact. JERRY

Thanks, I appreciate all the advice. If paypal finds in my favor I will return them (and take photos and or video of them being packed). If they don not, I will likely do as you suggested and offer them for sale. They are gorgeous animals and are eating / drinking as they should. At this point I want to be done with the whole ordeal, hopefully it can be resolved week after next.

Again, thanks for all the input!
 
Old 09-28-2017, 11:44 PM   #90
Bryan S
As of the time of this post, over 8,000 views for this thread. You have been screwed over Mark, but it will be a one time deal with this seller, he will have lost and will continue to lose numerous potential buyers because of this ordeal.
 

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