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Old 04-14-2017, 01:10 PM   #1471
FresnoTortoise
Nick,

Is a purple tegu that ty produced still an albino blue tegu?
 
Old 04-14-2017, 02:05 PM   #1472
nickolasanastasiou
Quote:
Originally Posted by FresnoTortoise View Post
Nick,

Is a purple tegu that ty produced still an albino blue tegu?
As I would accurately describe it from a scientific perspective, yes.

As Ty described it early on, no. It appears to me that he tried to play both sides of this (marketing speak versus a more scientific label) from what I have seen when the conflict escalated.

Really, this was made far more complicated than it needed to be. She paid for raffle tickets. I know if I bought raffle tickets, I would have zero expectation of winning. Despite that, she won. If she had gotten the money or a "purple" albino tegu (since a typical albino blue was said to not have been produced), this would have been put to bed. If he had given her a clear answer about what was being sent when she asked for more information after he asked for her address (without revealing information) or revealed who the source for the albino tegu was (that he failed to procure), this would have ended long ago and a lot more people (including the OP and Ty) would be a ton happier today.

This can still be resolved right now with less difficulties than it might have in the future, but ego is pushing for a doubling down now because setting this right is now being perceived as a loss in a competition (and this should really be seen as fulfilling an obligation without the emotional garbage injected into it).
 
Old 04-14-2017, 03:56 PM   #1473
Pouky28
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike (The M) View Post
He didn't, though. He was pretty willfully obtuse by the end of it. When he said, "send me your address, etc." and continued to say, "you will receive albino tegu", all he had to do was say, "yes, I produced it" when Michelle pressed on its origin.

Ty could have even gone as far to say, it's the same genetic lineage, etc. and things would not be where they are now.

I typically don't sell things anymore, because I'm not a people person. If I put an ad out, I try to answer all the general questions in the ad. I'm not a breeder, I am a hobbyist who on occasion has things to sell, either produced by me or someone else. Once I've been asked one too many questions that are either already answered in the ad, or it seems the person is going to be high maintenance, I shut down. Ty did the same. When you position yourself to be a man of the reptile people, you don't really have that option.

It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode with the soup restaurant. "Too many questions, NO TEGU FOR YOU!"

He definitely relied on semantics. The raffle said, "you will get a tegu produced by me, if not, I'll pay you $3k."

Then it was, "I said if I did not produce any albinos. I did produce albinos, just not albino BLUES."

While I do not agree with how Michelle has handled every aspect along the way. For example, this was not a scam. I didn't agree with contacting another charity raffle, and say "I hope he doesn't scam them out of their prize." There are clear actions that both took, that snowballed the chain of events. That's not a scam, it's a pissing contest. Regardless of my personal opinion, she is still not wrong in her claims that he owes her.

If Ty is a "to the letter" guy, then it's ok for Michelle to be a "to the letter" woman. If she was just after 3k, I imagine this would have been over long ago, because she just could've taken the tegu he was going to give her, then turn around and sell it as "Ty Park line" for its market value.

You have brought up some points about what the raffle did or didn't say. The industry has some inherent standards of conduct. Unless you're a distributor who has bins full of the species in question, you typically get a picture of the animal you're getting.

If Ty had posted pictures of the babies he produced (which he often does), and provided Michelle a picture of one of them, it's evident to say she would have trusted him.

Those aren't the things being judged. What is being judged is whether or not Michelle has been made whole by the contract she entered into. In no uncertain terms, she has not refused anything, other than a consolation prize, which was never part of the terms.

Again, I don't agree with everything, on either side. But let's not conflate one issue into another. You're really just making this thread more useless to provide a case. Take the back and forth to PMs.

Michelle... dude has one thing right. If Ty is trying a libel case against you... STOP. RESPONDING. TO. NONSENSE.

Pet a sugar glider.
The best post in this whole thread!
 
Old 04-14-2017, 05:51 PM   #1474
Milesd_87
Quote:
Originally Posted by FresnoTortoise View Post
After that, then ty agreed to give her on she produced. Do I have to repost that screen shot again?
"I don't, I only hatched purples and I sell those for $5000. I'm pick them up from another breeder and paying for them so you can have one."


"I could of just bought the tegu from someone and ship it she would have no idea it was not produced by me."


I would have a problem believing "ok ill send u one I produced" after he said he didn't which of his statements should we believe? He even says I could have just not told her and sent one from another breeder. I get that he did eventually say he'll send one he produced, the issue I see is what he stated before that. If you are being shipped a $2500 animal from a specific breeder and line, and all of a sudden prior to shipping red flags about which breeder and lines it's coming from start popping up. I would be suspect of what they're saying regardless of their "reputation."


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Old 04-14-2017, 07:47 PM   #1475
Chris Kennard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike (The M) View Post
He didn't, though. He was pretty willfully obtuse by the end of it. When he said, "send me your address, etc." and continued to say, "you will receive albino tegu", all he had to do was say, "yes, I produced it" when Michelle pressed on its origin.

Ty could have even gone as far to say, it's the same genetic lineage, etc. and things would not be where they are now.

I typically don't sell things anymore, because I'm not a people person. If I put an ad out, I try to answer all the general questions in the ad. I'm not a breeder, I am a hobbyist who on occasion has things to sell, either produced by me or someone else. Once I've been asked one too many questions that are either already answered in the ad, or it seems the person is going to be high maintenance, I shut down. Ty did the same. When you position yourself to be a man of the reptile people, you don't really have that option.

It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode with the soup restaurant. "Too many questions, NO TEGU FOR YOU!"

He definitely relied on semantics. The raffle said, "you will get a tegu produced by me, if not, I'll pay you $3k."

Then it was, "I said if I did not produce any albinos. I did produce albinos, just not albino BLUES."

While I do not agree with how Michelle has handled every aspect along the way. For example, this was not a scam. I didn't agree with contacting another charity raffle, and say "I hope he doesn't scam them out of their prize." There are clear actions that both took, that snowballed the chain of events. That's not a scam, it's a pissing contest. Regardless of my personal opinion, she is still not wrong in her claims that he owes her.

If Ty is a "to the letter" guy, then it's ok for Michelle to be a "to the letter" woman. If she was just after 3k, I imagine this would have been over long ago, because she just could've taken the tegu he was going to give her, then turn around and sell it as "Ty Park line" for its market value.

You have brought up some points about what the raffle did or didn't say. The industry has some inherent standards of conduct. Unless you're a distributor who has bins full of the species in question, you typically get a picture of the animal you're getting.

If Ty had posted pictures of the babies he produced (which he often does), and provided Michelle a picture of one of them, it's evident to say she would have trusted him.

Those aren't the things being judged. What is being judged is whether or not Michelle has been made whole by the contract she entered into. In no uncertain terms, she has not refused anything, other than a consolation prize, which was never part of the terms.

Again, I don't agree with everything, on either side. But let's not conflate one issue into another. You're really just making this thread more useless to provide a case. Take the back and forth to PMs.

Michelle... dude has one thing right. If Ty is trying a libel case against you... STOP. RESPONDING. TO. NONSENSE.

Pet a sugar glider.
I have to wonder if your post would be different if you were in the OP's shoes. I am a locality specific type of guy. I like the know the history of the animals I buy for my personal collection. While I am on board with much of your post, the "pet a sugar glider" comment turned your post from somewhat respectable to biased and condescending.
 
Old 04-14-2017, 10:56 PM   #1476
Mike (The M)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kennard View Post
I have to wonder if your post would be different if you were in the OP's shoes. I am a locality specific type of guy. I like the know the history of the animals I buy for my personal collection. While I am on board with much of your post, the "pet a sugar glider" comment turned your post from somewhat respectable to biased and condescending.
If I were in the OP's shoes, I would have taken the $400 back and cut my losses in money, time, and stress long ago, and chalked it up to stuff happens and never dealing with Ty again. I am specific with my selections as well, when it matters. Even when it doesn't, for something like my Gehyra marginata, I am staunch on diversifying genetics and purity.

My comment was levity. I am not sure who I would seem biased against, since I said on three separate occasions in that post alone that Michelle is in the right, and that's through a lens of disagreeing with a few of her choices. And my comments were directed to a person who was trying to prove otherwise. That is the exact opposite of biased. We've also exchanged PMs where I've advised her to step back.

But hey, thanks for your opinion!
 
Old 04-15-2017, 11:41 PM   #1477
Lloyd Heilbrunn
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcr229 View Post
Bear in mind that a lot of judges send cases to arbitration/mediation in an attempt to bring about a resolution without cluttering up the court docket. They do not look favorably on parties who refuse a good faith effort to participate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kennard View Post
That's true in lesser civil cases. There's alot of money involved here including court and attorney fees. Who is exempt from "cluttering up" the court docket? Is her case more insignificant than others with regard to judges for some reason? In my opinion, you might find a judge who doesn't give a crap. That's what Ty is counting on. The odds are not in his favor. Tell you what. I'll put up a hundred bucks to one prrson, the first to take me up on it here, that Ty loses. I don't care if the settlement is for one dollar in Sugars favor. Only respond on this thread, and don't respond if we have never corresponded before, here or privately, positive or negative.
Arbitration decides cases on the merits. It needs an agreement.

Mediation in Florida is a non binding settlement mechanism, and the Judge will send you there, even involuntarily, in 99% of all Florida civil cases....
 
Old 04-20-2017, 10:27 AM   #1478
AllisonLeigh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike (The M) View Post
If I were in the OP's shoes, I would have taken the $400 back and cut my losses in money, time, and stress long ago, and chalked it up to stuff happens and never dealing with Ty again. I am specific with my selections as well, when it matters. Even when it doesn't, for something like my Gehyra marginata, I am staunch on diversifying genetics and purity.

My comment was levity. I am not sure who I would seem biased against, since I said on three separate occasions in that post alone that Michelle is in the right, and that's through a lens of disagreeing with a few of her choices. And my comments were directed to a person who was trying to prove otherwise. That is the exact opposite of biased. We've also exchanged PMs where I've advised her to step back.

But hey, thanks for your opinion!
Mike, I would be cautious stating something like this on a public site, it's essentially an invitation to be scammed as anyone who sells you a raffle ticket knows if you end up the winner all they have to do is give you back the cost of the ticket and then they can keep ALL the profit obtained from all the "non-winners"...

Speaking of which, I'm thinking about raffling off a pure bred T-Rex produced by me, if I don't produce one I'll give the winner 1,000,000$... tickets would only be 100$ each, what a bargain! Want to buy one?
 
Old 04-20-2017, 12:29 PM   #1479
Michael Brown
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllisonLeigh View Post
Mike, I would be cautious stating something like this on a public site, it's essentially an invitation to be scammed as anyone who sells you a raffle ticket knows if you end up the winner all they have to do is give you back the cost of the ticket and then they can keep ALL the profit obtained from all the "non-winners"...

Speaking of which, I'm thinking about raffling off a pure bred T-Rex produced by me, if I don't produce one I'll give the winner 1,000,000$... tickets would only be 100$ each, what a bargain! Want to buy one?
Is prize delivery contingent on your perception of my level of greed? If not, sign me up!
 
Old 04-25-2017, 08:14 AM   #1480
Pasodama
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by caffeinecynic View Post
That's kind of the source of why everyone involved thinks Ty is in the wrong. You've just hit the nail on the head.

- He posted a picture of a blue albino tegu
- Admits, several times, he did not produce any blue albinos
- When asked, says he'll send one like in the photo [blue albino] that he produced

Michelle went on to ask for him to share where he produced blue albinos. Giving her benefit of doubt, I'm assuming she asked this because she (like many people reading this) became confused - one minute he said he did not produce them, then says he did. Then he says he's going to send her an albino tegu 'like the one in the photo' - but he didn't produce one like in the photo...

It gets confusing very quickly. I believe, based on Michelle's dire insistence that she wanted a Ty Park-produced Tegu, that had he simply said "I didn't produce any blues, but I have a purple I will send you", she would have accepted.

The thing is, in Ty's one post here, he outright admitted he didn't communicate that through to her to the letter, and Michelle was more discerning in what she was getting than many others would be. I don't think she's in the wrong for being discerning, or at least wanting to know for sure 100% what she's receiving.
Also, let's not forget that, prior to this, Ty had flat out stated "No" when OP asked if Ty would send her a Purple Albino (due to no blues having been produced, and only purples were, according to Ty). Since Ty was adamant about not sending a purple, to the OP, (since, in Ty's words, the Purple was valued at $2000, or $2500, more than a blue) the OP would have had no reason to think a purple was going to be sent if he did not communicate that to her.

~~~~
 

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