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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

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Old 04-20-2017, 02:31 PM   #1
Alterna Ranch
Phillip Averbuck

This is not a rip of this guy or the deal. My thought is he just does not have enough experience to have known the condition of this snake when he shipped it, so....I was contacted by him offering a nice 4' female Blacktail Cribo and $450 for a second year female Texas indigo I have left. We hatch out about 40-60 Texas indies each year, so we always have extras unsold to use for trade. I always wanted Cribos, so I took the deal. Snake was shipped along with the payment we agreed to. Upon getting the snake, I probed it to be a female. She was active, but noticed a ridge along her spine that I do not see in my Texas indies if they are healthy. This is my first cribo, so this spine ridge may be normal. She was set up in a very large tub, screen lid, aspen and a water bowl in an area isolated. I left her basically alone from handling until she acclimated a few days. Her first fecal looked like clear jelly and smelled horrible. Also not something I ever see in my indies. After about ten days I got a small hopper mouse live and smacked it so it's warm, moving a bit, but not able to bite her. She took it in a crazy frenzy with no hesitation. When I got up in the middle of the night and looked at her, she had puked it up. The mouse's body was about 2" and the snake is 4 foot. The next fecal was even worse, so I took the sample to a vet who sent it to a lab. I have not gotten the results back as of this posting. Now the snake is lethargic and partially limp and seems to be full of air. I did hit her with ivermectin the day after she puked up the mouse. Now the guy wants me to ship her back. I do not think in the condition she is in she would make it alive. Also, my temps all next week in Del Rio are 95+ and I do not ship from Del Rio if temps are over 85 because everything from Del Rio goes by truck to San Antonio and stops in every small town between Del Rio and SA. I should also say that as I have a pile of last years males left - I offered to pair the female up at no extra charge, but given the condition of this BT female, I'm not up for that at this point. I'd prefer to return the snake and the money less the vet bill and shipping, which he agreed to, but should I kill the snake to make good on the return? This is how BAD GUY posts get started here and I'd like to clean it up and not have those issues
 
Old 04-20-2017, 03:09 PM   #2
BLUESIRTALIS
WITH THE FECAL YOU DESCRIBED AND THE REGURGITATION IT SOUNDS LIKE IT COULD POSSIBLY BE SOME SORT OF PARASITES, BUT THE LATER SYSMPTONS YOU DESCRIBED SOUND LIKE SIDE EFFECTS OF IVERMECTIN. I WOULD NEVER USE IVERMECTIN ON SNAKES UNLESS PRESCRIBED BY A VET. I THINK METRONIDAZOLE AND FENBENDAZOLE IS MUCH BETTER CHOICES AGAIN THOUGH I WOULD ONLY USE IF PRESCRIBED BY A VET.
 
Old 04-20-2017, 03:12 PM   #3
Alterna Ranch
Vet called

The vet told me to hit her with four drops in the water bowl which holds about 12 oz of water. Very very light dose and I use it all the time on wild caught snakes. Never had an issue, but the fecal should tell. Not going to treat until I get the results, but I'm concerned she will die.
 
Old 04-20-2017, 03:49 PM   #4
Lucille
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alterna Ranch View Post
My thought is he just does not have enough experience to have known the condition of this snake when he shipped it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alterna Ranch View Post
Upon getting the snake, I probed it to be a female. She was active, but noticed a ridge along her spine that I do not see in my Texas indies if they are healthy. This is my first cribo, so this spine ridge may be normal. She was set up in a very large tub, screen lid, aspen and a water bowl in an area isolated. I left her basically alone from handling until she acclimated a few days.
My thoughts are that with all your experience you thought she looked good enough after examining her to leave her alone for a few days, so it would not seem there was anything in particular to cue the seller, if indeed she was ill when she left. We can't presume that, since she was OK when you left her alone.
 
Old 04-20-2017, 03:53 PM   #5
Lucille
Also since you put his name here, I think you should let him know of this thread so that he may give some input if he wishes.
 
Old 04-20-2017, 06:01 PM   #6
Jmeurrens31
Ive msg'd Phil letting him know. I dont know him, but he is in one of the FB groups I Admin.
 
Old 04-20-2017, 06:16 PM   #7
Alterna Ranch
JESUS

Sorry I did not put enough detail for you people to get the gist of my post. I do not think Phillip did anything intentionally or knew the snake was ill. I did say it was thin upon receipt and he said it was due to brumation. I always leave a new arrival alone as far as taking it out, picking it up etc.,...so it has a few days to calm down. Of course I looked at it numerous times a day and refilled the water dish at least once a day. I did tell Phillip of my concerns, but since I've been doing this for 50+ years, I also know you cannot always tell in the first few hours and coming out of brumation and warming up tends to speed things up. My goal is to save this snake and get her healthy. Phillip is on board with this. Again, this is and was not a BAD GUY post on Phillip. Stuff happens and a lot of the time it is no ones fault. I guess my inquiry question is: Should I return the snake and risk it dying, or try to save it? You people on here tend to over think things and try to get those posting into an argument. Nothing to argue about here - if I save her - the deal goes through. If she dies, I simply return his money.
 
Old 04-20-2017, 06:33 PM   #8
Andy_G
Your question should have been posted in the discussion board if that's the case, Bob. That's probably why you've encountered the reactions that you don't desire.
I can tell you that it's normal for cribos to be triangular if looking at a cross section with a slightly raised area along the spine. If they are completely round they're normally overweight. Nothing else to add without seeing pictures, but once again this isn't the right place for that. Hopefully you'll find the answer you're looking for in the proper section.
 

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