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Old 07-03-2010, 05:50 PM   #1
Fleck
Italian Wall Lizard care?

Hello
Has anyone kept Italian Wall Lizard (Podarcis sicula campestris ) "long term" and if so how any breeding?

I was thinking of a pair for outdoor enclosure (chicken wire and wood) in Florida but could just as easily keep them inside if that would be best.

Perhaps to hot here esp Summer for outside. Either way any care info would be great.

Thanks
 
Old 07-06-2010, 01:04 PM   #2
Ameivaboy
Hi I keep italian wall lizards here in the SF Bay Area.
I recently moved all of mine into outdoor enclosures.
I have several clutches of eggs cooking too.
They are vary hardy lizards and very fun to work with.
My concern would be it may stay too warm in florida to trigger brumation that inspires breeding. However I could be wrong about that.
As far as being too hot just make sure they can get way out of the heat. I use under ground burrows several inches deep along with pieces of wood on top of those burrows to absorb the heat so the burrows remain cool.
 
Old 07-06-2010, 01:21 PM   #3
Ameivaboy
Also,

Males are VERY territorial, only 1 per enclosure.
Females can be territorial as well, keep an eye on them.
I keep mine in 1.2 groups however a person I know of that has kept many podarcis species (In Europe) suggests pairs are the best way to go.
They'll eat pretty much any insect they can fit in their mouths.
Also they will take fruits as well.


I dont have any good pictures of the podarcis cages to show what I was talking about in the previous post. But this enclosure (housing young jeweled lacertas)is set up similarly minus the the branches and logs that I include for the podarcis cages.

If you look at the bottom of the "steps" you can see a burrow.
The steps absorb all the heat so the burrow (which is a couple inches under ground) stays cool.
Each of my outdoor cages has a minimum of 4 undergound burrows spread through out the cage so as the sun moves around they always have options of where to hide. I dunno, hope that helps a bit.
I'm surprised more people dont keep these and other lacertids. They are awesome lol

 
Old 07-06-2010, 09:31 PM   #4
Fleck
Great enclosure for the jeweled lacertas this was lots of help .

What winter temps do you get in SF ?

We did have a harsh winter this yr by Florida standards and even in Miami we hit night temps of 40s but usually high 50s is considered very cold night and rare .

This was a lot of help and great info.

Thanks
 
Old 07-06-2010, 10:53 PM   #5
Ameivaboy
High 50's the wall lizards would be able to handle fine. We're having a little cold spell right now. It's supposed to be 53 tonight. The lizards (both wall and jeweleds) were all out earlier at 68 degrees.
Italian wall lizards have populations on long island where it gets much colder than it does in either of our areas. As long as they can get underground deep enough (or some other protected area) they will be ok.
Once the seasons start changing I have tarps to cover the cages during rainy weather. My cages arent water tight either so that's another plus against rain and flooding. As the temperatures start dropping I'll add a few more inches of dirt and a ton of leaves to help insulate them even more with me eventually moving the cages into a shed I have outback during the coldest part of the year.

Do you have a source to obtain wall lizards yet?
I know a couple people who have them available as well as myself.
I have a few adults I could move and should have hatchlings in a month and a half or so.
just for kicks here's my "big" male lol



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleck View Post
Great enclosure for the jeweled lacertas this was lots of help .

What winter temps do you get in SF ?

We did have a harsh winter this yr by Florida standards and even in Miami we hit night temps of 40s but usually high 50s is considered very cold night and rare .

This was a lot of help and great info.

Thanks
 
Old 07-07-2010, 09:56 AM   #6
Fleck
Sadly I asked a wholesale place I go to a lot to get me a pair M/F by late August and he said yes .
A friend who keeps desert iguanas outside and breeds them has large credit with him and let me use some for adult wall lizard pair .

I say sadly or would buy from you . I will PM you if guy doesn't come through but feel bad cancelling esp after he looked around to make sure he could get pair in Aug as going to build enclosure this weekend and next .
However I would imagine incredibly easy to sell because now there is a huge interest for them.

When you mention the females are territorial how much territory do they need each and are they also territorial towards males?

My plan was just 1 pair in a 6 foot by 3 foot enclosure . You find that to small?

I have a place in my yard which is half shade and half sun all yr long . The sun here is brutal but easy enough to block out with large pots with bush'es,etc. We have a lot of snakes in area so enclosure has to be rat snake but ESP racer (incredibly persistent) proof.

Great looking male . We have ocellated skinks, curly tails ,iguanas, knight anoles, assorted geckoes in area which are not native and love them. Other than ocellated skinks non were introduced by pet owners .We are a skip away from the Caribbeans and hundreds of yrs of ships bringing plants,etc bought them here.



Its amazing they established themselves in long island. You could easily write care info on them for Reptile mag .
 
Old 07-07-2010, 12:36 PM   #7
Ameivaboy
6 x 3 is huge for a pair. Almost too big (not for the lizards but for you viewing them)
I would think if the cage is 3-4 feet tall you could *possibly* keep 2 males and several females.
My 1.2 adult groups are in 36 x 18 x 18 cages. It did take a bit of time figuring out who was compatible with who though.

In my experience some are shunned by the others being bullied by both male and female. Really weird..

Right now I have 2.3 (wc adults w/ regen tails) I can part with. I'm not sure how long they will be around though but should have hatchlings soon too. If you're unable to get what you're looking for and I dont have it when you're ready I can certainly refer you to 2 other people who could supply you.

One thing to keep in mind (and a reason I am careful who I sell them too) is their incredible ability to establish themselves in new areas. Along with The new york population there is also a population in Topeka, KS as well as small area in southern California where they have been documented. Another species the common wall lizard (Podarcis Muralis) has established itself in Ohio and upper Kentucky.
Ohio has even made it their state lizard (which in my opinion is the most retarded thing ever making an introduced species the state lizard and also protecting it from collection) Anywho for that reason cages must be VERY secure as any escapees could start even more populations.

The large pots with bushed would be great. Not only would the pots and bushes create shade but if the soil is soft enough they can burrow down in there for protection from heat/rain/cold etc.

The problems I see with such a large cage is finding any eggs, even with nest boxes the lizards could still find places (like deep down in the pots) to lay where you would never find them.
Also Catching the lizards if you'd need to separate them for any reason (health, being gravid, territorial disputes etc) They are very fast even at cooler temperatures. I'd imagine you'd have to noose them to catch them in a cage that size.

I think it's really cool that there's occellated skinks out there (but not cool that they've been introduced) I had a small breeding group of them a few years back. They were one of my favorite species I have worked with. I've even considered trying to aquire more and trying to keep them outdoors here as they do have populations that live in southern europe whose climate is almost identical to mine, though specimens offered here are collected from north africa from what I know.
 
Old 07-07-2010, 04:03 PM   #8
fishkeeper
dont meen to hijack but Ameivaboy, what size cage would be good for indoor houseing for 1.1-2? I did not know they needed that much space, Iam thinking of getting afew and was planning on useing a spare 18"X18"X24" exo, but it sounds like thats to small, do you have any tips for brumating them indoors?

we have wall lizards here on vancouver island, Iam going over there sometime this summer and plan to try and find some, I thought they were italians but i think there the common ones, I thought about trying to keep them outside but its below freezing here a lot of the winter with lots of snow as i live quite a bit inland towards the mountains from the island so i dont think they could take the cold.
 
Old 07-07-2010, 08:03 PM   #9
Ameivaboy
That exo terra should be fine for a pair, though they would certainly use more space if it were provided. Several years ago I had kept a pair in a 29 gallon for well over a year with no problems (and I was smart enough to cover the sides and back wall with cork tile to triple the amount of usable space they had).

Actually I do currently have 1.1 in a 18 x 18 x 36 reptibreeze cage as well.
I dont like that cage however because of the front opening door. I'm always paranoid someone is going to bolt out. But really they always dart for cover as soon as they see me as they are not accustomed to my prescence as the other ones are because the main groups are on my deck where i sit and watch them and this pair is off to the side and they only see me for feeding and cleaning.

I have never brumated anything indoors. I have heard of people brumating animals in refridgerators but I have never attempted that. If you have a basement you could probably stick them down there as it would protect them from freezes.(I would still make deep burrows for them and add lots of leaves etc to blanket them as much as possible)

Now that you mention Vancouver Island I have heard of wall lizards being out there as well. If I remember correctly it is Podarcis Muralis that occupies the island.

I would love to get my hands on some muralis! If anyone in Kentucky ever reads this thread and has access to them contact me!! lol
 
Old 07-08-2010, 05:07 PM   #10
Fleck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameivaboy View Post
6 x 3 is huge for a pair. Almost too big (not for the lizards but for you viewing them)
I would think if the cage is 3-4 feet tall you could *possibly* keep 2 males and several females.
My 1.2 adult groups are in 36 x 18 x 18 cages. It did take a bit of time figuring out who was compatible with who though.

In my experience some are shunned by the others being bullied by both male and female. Really weird..

Right now I have 2.3 (wc adults w/ regen tails) I can part with. I'm not sure how long they will be around though but should have hatchlings soon too. If you're unable to get what you're looking for and I dont have it when you're ready I can certainly refer you to 2 other people who could supply you.

One thing to keep in mind (and a reason I am careful who I sell them too) is their incredible ability to establish themselves in new areas. Along with The new york population there is also a population in Topeka, KS as well as small area in southern California where they have been documented. Another species the common wall lizard (Podarcis Muralis) has established itself in Ohio and upper Kentucky.
Ohio has even made it their state lizard (which in my opinion is the most retarded thing ever making an introduced species the state lizard and also protecting it from collection) Anywho for that reason cages must be VERY secure as any escapees could start even more populations.

The large pots with bushed would be great. Not only would the pots and bushes create shade but if the soil is soft enough they can burrow down in there for protection from heat/rain/cold etc.

The problems I see with such a large cage is finding any eggs, even with nest boxes the lizards could still find places (like deep down in the pots) to lay where you would never find them.
Also Catching the lizards if you'd need to separate them for any reason (health, being gravid, territorial disputes etc) They are very fast even at cooler temperatures. I'd imagine you'd have to noose them to catch them in a cage that size.

I think it's really cool that there's occellated skinks out there (but not cool that they've been introduced) I had a small breeding group of them a few years back. They were one of my favorite species I have worked with. I've even considered trying to aquire more and trying to keep them outdoors here as they do have populations that live in southern europe whose climate is almost identical to mine, though specimens offered here are collected from north africa from what I know.
This was very informative. Most of the non natives here such as assorted caribbean geckos,lizards,frogs ,etc have probably been here hundreds of years since shipping was bringing over cargo for hundreds of yrs to Florida .

However when you pave over a field and remove all green the natives move out and surprisingly non non natives move in .Than they are blamed for driving out the natives.
I have seen curly tails established in the middle of a cement shopping center parking center with their home base being those little tree 4 x 4 areas .

The Ocellated certainly didn't come from caribbeans but only found in certain pockets .The non native albino blue tongue skink colony is neat lol just kidding about those .

"Also Catching the lizards if you'd need to separate them for any reason (health, being gravid, territorial disputes etc) They are very fast even at cooler temperatures"

Yes thats true. I hoped that with plenty of room esp high area like shrubs in pots for them to climb the above would not be an issue?


Do yours breed all yr long ?

"Not only would the pots and bushes create shade but if the soil is soft enough they can burrow down in there for protection from heat/rain/cold etc. "

It POURS here when it rains lol. I had planned over head cover such as wooden boxes with clay tiles on them and other types cover.
 

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