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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

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Old 06-25-2003, 01:05 AM   #91
The BoidSmith
This will be the last time I post on this subject. I still feel comfortable enough in the fact that I'm not the wrong one in this situation to leave your future purchases up to you.
That was the last post by Jason. He seems to want to stick to it. It's his business after all...


Old 06-25-2003, 05:38 PM   #92

yep stick to it or should i say try to stick it to me. well since i have no recourse but to file charges with the usps since he sent me sick gecko through them. let him deal with them. i tried to work this out privately then here on fauna. since he has no honor well what happens happens.

gary bolton
Old 06-25-2003, 05:56 PM   #93
Darin Chappell

I don't know what charging him through USPS is going to do for you. Imean, shipping geckos is legal that way, and you'd have to PROVE that he KNOWINGLY sent you sick geckos in order to prove mail-fraud.

However, it is going to be difficult to prove the animals appeared sick to you upon their arrival, since it was a week or so before you contacted Jason, and, though you did take them to your vet almost immediately, you stated yourself that you do that for all of your new animals.

Now, if it is going to be tough to prove that YOU thought the animals looked sick when they arrived, I can't imagine how you're going to PROVE that Jason KNEW they were sick before he sent them. Maybe there is a way for you, but I can't see it.

SO, here's the deal. IF (and I mean, heavy on the "IF!") you cannot prove mail-fraud against Jason, why make a claim at all? We all suffer enough from shipping woes concerning our inability to ship easily and cheaply. The more noise that gets made about deals you cannot hope to win, the worse it gets for all of us. I'm not saying "Don't follow every available option." I'm just saying that sometimes you can't win, but you sure can lose! Try to see the bigger picture, if you can't do exactly what you might like to try . . .that's all.
Old 06-25-2003, 10:36 PM   #94
problem is this

i didn't wait a week to call him i am going to get a phone bill for sept 2002 to prove i called him on the 3rd same day i received the geckos and same day i took them to the vet. i am just pissed because i tried to work this out with this guy. 1st he says i'll ship you some other geckos to make good on the deal. time goes by no geckos no email no call. i go to his web site an see one of the geckos he promised me up for sale. i email him. get told will ship when i have money to ship. get another email will ship next week. a week later no geckos. try to call him countless times no answer. finally when i say i am gonna post it on here. boom he says 2 other breeders told him i am lieing. he accuses Mark Leshock of selling sick reptiles to me. when his geckos got the fat tails sick. an then he has the gutts to say he did nothing wrong after i post and email him the vet letter. he never even called the vet to verify the letter. it is cause of guy like this that breeders don't trust anyone anymore. and if he gets bursted for it, i won't cry for him. besides most quality breeders don't ship through the us mail since 9-11. cause they radiate packages on the east coast also because of the white powder scare. most quality breeders use ups, fedex, airborne, or delta dash. Sorry but I feel Jason Hays is a crook who's day has come. we must stop people like him before more people turn against herpers. of health agreements are our bond and if people are affraid to trust us then we are doomed.

gary bolton
Old 06-25-2003, 10:38 PM   #95
I'm still interested in hearing the answers to the questions Rick posed.

Were I the seller, I'd want to see better documentation on this.

I'd also like to know what the buyer's quarantine procedures are. How did anything get passed to the fat tails, if proper quarantine was followed? That alone calls the buyer's husbandry into question.

All I see are questionable veterinary practices and questionable husbandry practices so far, provided the letter which was photographed -- not scanned, the file name is from a sony digital camera's auto numbering -- is legit. I'd like to see if the seller or anyone else can verify the letter. I'd assume it's up to the seller, since the vet didn't invite any of us to call.

Originally posted by Rick Staub
I haven't got the experience that some of you have at evaluating all the evidence, but I find this letter from the vet to be highly questionable. First off, every vet I have ever visited has a folder with write up sheets for every animal. Should be easy enough to pull out this folder and the specific evaluation for that animal and that day and copy it.

Second, I agree with Darin that no vet is going to mistakenly use autopsy in place of necropsy.

In the letter, the vet deduced that fluid in the lungs meant pnuemonia and prescribed tetracycline. Every vet that I know of would have run a culture to determine the the actual infective agent. Where are the culture results? I really have to question the competance of this vet if she/he is real. Why prescribe tetracycline for what sounds like a respiratory infection. Any vet worth their salt knows that in reptiles you need an antibiotic that will be active for gram-negative (hope I got that right) bacteria so an antibiotic like Baytril or Amykacin is preferred. What happened to the accusation that the geckos died of cellulitis? So we have gone from a skin disorder to a respiratory infection.

Sorry but this story is all over the board with no pictures and no documentation.
Old 06-25-2003, 10:57 PM   #96
scaned copy

ok can't get the scaned copy to upload can email to any who want to see it.

gary bolton
Old 06-26-2003, 02:33 AM   #97
I only noted the fact that it wasn't an actual scan b/c there was some comment on the quality of the image. I don't think it has any bearing on the questions about the veterinary treatment, the original reciept for same, or the quarantine procedures. Those all need to be addressed.
Old 06-26-2003, 10:08 AM   #98
The BoidSmith

I will have to absolutely agree with Darin. It's going to be very difficult to prove anything with the USPS. Besides no one needs this kind of "publicity" right now. No one is asking you to drop your case, if in effect you feel you were wronged. You can keep going on with your personal complaint for as long as you feel it's worth your time and effort. This may produce results only if Jason plans on continuing with his business over the internet.

Old 06-26-2003, 03:39 PM   #99
ok i can agree with that

i guess i am just a bit pissed i mean the vet offered him the chance to call an verify the letter. and he just brushes it off like no big deal. i mean t isn't like i am ask for something unreasonable. all i way is the $150 i paid for the albinos back.
i even offer to post a copy of the money order or paypal receipt on here to clear up this problem. if he ever solves this problem.

gary bolton
Old 06-26-2003, 11:24 PM   #100
finally got a letter from jason

as i expected no go on honoring the agreement. as for your comment on blue tongues jason i have only had my own blue tongues. had 3 found out 2 where male so i sold the one. the attached file has a pic of my remaining male sorry baby my female is under the paper. not wanting to pose for pics now. you know how females get when prego.

gary bolton
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